Guest Sidewinder Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 120 smokeless. They have different advantages in Lo, but if we had both loft and smokeless slammer....hehe....things would be a lot easier for the 15 ;) Oh and dont forget proper gimbal limits in search mode (current Lo eagle search bvr is limited to -30 deg down, once you have a lock though it goes to -60 :P) I understand that, and it bleeds speed very fast. They are easy to dodge from 10 miles out. Why does everywhere I look says tha 120 has a top speed of mach 4(+)
GGTharos Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 Because it does. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
RvEYoda Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 I remember you clearly saying it should be possible for the real deal to reach mach 5. Here is some fun (ALL speeds TAS) That is 3 second 33G accell and then uber break to 0G :P The only way to fulfill laws of physics, amraam would need to deploy drag chute at one point, can you find it? (ps that is non-maneuvering target) S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
GGTharos Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 You know, since I have compared these speed profiles to real and relatively more realistic missile profiles, I'll say they're fine. They're ok for what they're trying to do. The missiles are simply too slow. ;) That's it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
RvEYoda Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 You know, since I have compared these speed profiles to real and relatively more realistic missile profiles, I'll say they're fine. They're ok for what they're trying to do. The missiles are simply too slow. ;) That's it. no this is not fine at all. *Evil eyes!* It will Not break 20-25 G at low alt, and if it did, it would not acc before at 33G, that would make 53-60 G (*m_missile) thrust. ==> one missile thrust almost same as 1 Burning F-16 Engine if you are saying the overall curves end up at approx the same place....that may be so, but there is certainly room for improvement! maybe, if you move the entire curve 1000 kph up, then you would see something better. Is that what you are proposing? S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
GGTharos Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that there's more room for improvement PURELY in the top speed range and especially guidance. ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
RvEYoda Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 Seeing how the curves look right now, If you just increase the "speed cap", i think you would not gain more than a few miles. maybe 2-3 nm at most. (reason is that drag would scale....baaaad, methinks ) Combine it with working loft and a substantial decrease in drag (for all missiles) and you might be looking at something a little better. Decrease acc, and you got a winner :) Guidance, yes. Away, sheesh "dodge-by-accident". EDIT: On second thought. Seeing how simply the model is made here.... It SHOULD be possible to reverse engineer the lo missile physics code...hm.....at least for straight flying non-maneuvering missiles. This could give some indication of how much to change the numbers around. S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
Guest Sidewinder Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 Because it does. How fast is the 120 in lock on FC then? mach 3???
yar Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 How fast is the 120 in lock on FC then? mach 3???at a temperature of 20°C and 2000m altitude the max speed of the aim-120 in 1.12 is mach 2,46.... so you can say: in Real: MACH 4 in lock on: MACH 2,5 that's a difference of mach 1,5 (or even 1,85 kmh )
yar Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 Oh and dont forget proper gimbal limits in search mode (current Lo eagle search bvr is limited to -30 deg down, once you have a lock though it goes to -60 )i dont know the su27 (ive never looked for this), but the mig-29(S) can this too ;) ------ @ GGTharos: -== The Speeddifference between the R-77 in 1.1 and 1.12 ==- ==> As you can see: there is no noteworthy difference between the speed of the r-77 in 1.1 and 1.12. ( the small varieties are caused by the tacviewexport, and in fact, you cant test it 100% equal ) it seems, the aim-120 is tuned done, but there are no changes for the r77. greetz bm
GGTharos Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 The real think sure as heck won't be doing mach 4 at 2000m, I'm pretty sure ;) at a temperature of 20°C and 2000m altitude the max speed of the aim-120 in 1.12 is mach 2,46.... so you can say: in Real: MACH 4 in lock on: MACH 2,5 that's a difference of mach 1,5 (or even 1,85 kmh ) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
yar Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 The real think sure as heck won't be doing mach 4 at 2000m, I'm pretty sure ;)i think thats true.. it will fly faster than 2.5... and i think full mach 4 wouldn't be usefull (watch the aim-54C -> its easy to evade)
Pilotasso Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 MAch 4 is suposed to be the peack velocity. IRL even the phoenix though being rated mach 5 only reached that speed for a brief period of time, average speed is mach 3. I would expect AMRAAM to hit the target at much slower speeds also, specialy if the target is highly likely to manuever so will the missile bleeding speed off. Rating the MARAAM as a mach 4 missile wouldnt render it a flying brick like the phoenix ingame, it would infact be much deadlier. Take note how the R-77 with extra 300kph resists better to chaff. .
GGTharos Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 Yep, besides, the AIM-54 in-game doesn't have a speed problem. Its problem is that it has been limited to 5g max maneuver ... the real thing will probably pull 30+ without care. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
RvEYoda Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 I'm pretty sure a raptor flying around 65 angels mach 2 can push that amraam to M5 without too much problem ;) Btw here are some more comparisons : S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
vadIL Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 Some 1 cared about posting all this stuff in russian forums? I think not... They dont realy care I guess.. Myself getting sick of it... I was flying againts some guy in AvioSibir server.. He was engry cause i was firing and turning cold to dodge his missile by energy.... He was like "OO u just firing and turning cold".. The funiest part the he never went cold... I fired 2 amraams and i was turning but he still was locking me from my 6... What he did he flew under 10 meters... So now comon this is not cheat? People flying 10 meters and thinking "OO im so good pilot!!" No missile hit me!!! Im soo good"... In real life not even 1 pilot will do "crazy stuff" to dodge missile.. Just if the last chance... First pilots thinking about energy and not engels... But in lockon why do u need energy at all?? when u can pull or do some crazy move and dodge a missles! esspesily 120 that already that weak... Do u realy think in RL some pilot can dodge more then 1 missile with crazy pull? BUT in lockon u can!! So no 1 realy have respect for F15... When F15 fire 120 (In real 1 u wont get a warning not metter if it TWS or STT untill it goes Pitbull).. So u fire a missle and when the missile goes pitbull it should be veeeryy dangerous... So im sad that all this people flying online thinks they that good.. But when FighterOPS comes out or any new generation SIM. They will discover how suck they are... They wont dodge more then 1 120 by "pull". I realy hope that ED will finnely will tell us whats going on with the patch.. And if there anything going all at all.. If they wont do anything.. Me and much other will quit lockon for sure! 1
RvEYoda Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 Maybe I should make a Range v Time graph..hmm S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
vadIL Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 Maybe I should make a Range v Time graph..hmm There is no point to do any graph... ED wont listen to you anyway
RvEYoda Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 There is no point to do any graph... ED wont listen to you anyway I'm not here to show ED :P S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
tflash Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 Anyway, it's chrystal clear someone tampered with the Amraam between 1.1 and 1.12a? Or did I beat the dead horse once again :music_whistling: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
X-man Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 Because it isn't useful to use the negative part of the axis in this case. Please explaine, because Im not getting it :D X-man, On the chart from what I see , is once the accel stops the speed starts to drop also. The accel and speed stops after about 8 seconds, it looks right to me....maybe I'm just seeing things....someone else chime in please. Thats the thing, Acceleration doesnt stop. its still positive. If the speed is falling, the acceleration should be negative. Atleast thats what I was thought. 64th Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 135.181.115.54
RvEYoda Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 Please explaine, because Im not getting it :D Thats the thing, Acceleration doesnt stop. its still positive. If the speed is falling, the acceleration should be negative. Atleast thats what I was thought. depends on what direction, how you define what axis. My graphs display "1D"-events, so that should be simple to see what is going on, but the others you were referring to, seem strange. S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
Frostie Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 So im sad that all this people flying online thinks they that good.. But when FighterOPS comes out or any new generation SIM. They will discover how suck they are... They wont dodge more then 1 120 by "pull". The same can be said about all those that maddog and runaway , they'll find this tactic not so successful in a more realistic enviroment also. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
RvEYoda Posted February 8, 2008 Posted February 8, 2008 (sometimes too mean?) S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
RvETito Posted February 9, 2008 Posted February 9, 2008 (sometimes too mean?) Are you talkin' to me? Eh, are you talkin' to me? :D "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
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