ED future plans about air to air

[thereminqblank]

Guys LOMAC is predominantly fast movers, I've been on the 3SQN server quite alot of times and a vast majority of players there are also A2A like easily 90-95%, Whilst there is a large A2G fanbase on LO there is a much larger A2A fanbase.

 

There is only 1 true dedicated A2G server on HL and that's empty a majority of the time.

 

I don't think it really matters. To say that ED should primarily concentrate on A2A products is extremely demandy.

 

My opinion is that most of us here are interested in COMBAT AVIATION, which covers a range of operations, not just A2A. There are plenty of people around that enjoy both A2A and A2G.

 

The fact is you still have Lock On and I'm sure ED will bring out A2A products for DCS at some point.

[grandsurf]

DITO :thumbup:

[britgliderpilot]

There's another twist to that as well.

 

If the majority of Lomac/FC players are A2A-focused, there's probably just as large a group of people out there who are A2G-focused. And who deserve a decent flightsim just as much as anyone else.

 

Rotorheads have been starved of good sims for a long, long time - get them onto the DCS bandwagon as well and it just makes for more enthusiasts in the long run :)

 

 

It's not as if ED have turned around and announced they'll never make an A2A simulation again, ever - in fact I'd probably make a sizable bet that they won't.

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

I don't think it really matters. To say that ED should primarily concentrate on A2A products is extremely demandy.

 

I havn't demanded anything IMHO, I've only said that I find ED "a bit disrespectful and ignorant to have closed the door on the majority of the LO A2A community" by excluding them out of their new product for at least the next three years. Based on the only evidence I'm able to produce which is the server stats on HL, LOFC is without doubt predominantly used by A2A pilots, these A2A pilots are the same people who have supported ED for so long only to of had the door shut in their face at the very last moment!:mad:

 

Dont bite the hand that feeds you.

 

I've talked to alot of users in HL who are also very resentful towards ED concerning DCS for the point mentioned above.

 

The fact is you still have Lock On and I'm sure ED will bring out A2A products for DCS at some point.

 

In three years time!, Three years to long IMHO.

[SwingKid]

It's not as if ED have turned around and announced they'll never make an A2A simulation again, ever - in fact I'd probably make a sizable bet that they won't.

 

Ooh, big words. I suppose someone would be getting their money at the end of "forever?"

 

Rotorheads have been starved of good sims for a long, long time

 

How will Black Shark be "good" for rotorheads without a dynamic campaign? It's not like you can stick them all in Hyperlobby and let them fight each other the way we're treated - they depend on a DC even more than we do.

 

The starvation will continue.

 

-SK

[SwingKid]

In three years time!, Three years to long IMHO.

 

Realistically - what do you think ED can produce in three years, anyway, that they have not been able to produce in eight?

 

I think ED should be making jet products for their own benefit, not for ours. It's much simpler, and they have some experience.

 

-SK

[thereminqblank]

I find ED "a bit disrespectful and ignorant to have closed the door on the majority of the LO A2A community" by excluding them out of their new product for at least the next three years.

 

Funny, I find this kind of thinking to be arrogant and ignorant

 

Again, you're saying that because the majority like A2A that's the only product that should be made. By your thinking, A2G or anything else, should never be made.

 

Dont bite the hand that feeds you.

 

Oh the irony!

[TorwaK]

I think ED should be making jet products for their own benefit, not for ours. It's much simpler, and they have some experience.-SK

 

As I know already they've plan about making new jet products under named DCS module. In my opinion they've big expectations about BS and other A2G DCS modules, I hope it'll not come to naught.

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

Realistically - what do you think ED can produce in three years, anyway, that they have not been able to produce in eight?

 

IMHO Two real AFM/WAFM fighters with DC.

 

I think ED should be making jet products for their own benefit, not for ours. It's much simpler, and they have some experience.

 

-SK

 

Totally agree! :thumbup: although I would like to say it would be for the benefit of ED and a vast majority of the community.

[thereminqblank]

lol. I like how people think they know what's good for ED and the community.

 

On the other point, some people don't do things just because it would be simpler. Some people like to set themselves challenges to go beyond what others have done in the past. It's called personal development.

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

Funny, I find this kind of thinking to be arrogant and ignorant

 

So closing the door in the face of a majority of the LO community who have supported ED for so long is'nt arogant?.

 

Again, you're saying that because the majority like A2A that's the only product that should be made. By your thinking, A2G or anything else, should never be made.

 

In HL there are approx 12 server only one is A2G and 95% people favour A2A go check the server stats, so yes I am saying that DCS should be primarily A2A, the people who have supported ED for so long deserve this.

[thereminqblank]

I don't think it's a completely accurate indication. I like A2G mostly, but going into a Su-25T or A-10 in a mixed server where absolutely no teamwork is happening usually results in getting your ass handed to you on a platter. Many times have I given up and switch to A2A just to increase my survivability.

 

You're right, a majority of the community does only like A2A (and I do not think it's anywhere near the 95% mark)

 

But to say that A2G fans are less deserving of a good product is just...completely unfair, and I don't think anyone has the right to say something like that.

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

lol. I like how people think they know what's good for ED and the community..

 

It's not what I think, It's what the facts or should I say stats state!, fact is that the vast majority of ED customers are predominantly A2A pilots, even most of the high scoring A2G pilots on HL servers fly fighters more than mud movers, The stats speak for themselves.

 

On the other point, some people don't do things just because it would be simpler. Some people like to set themselves challenges to go beyond what others have done in the past. It's called personal development.

 

?

[GGTharos]

So closing the door in the face of a majority of the LO community who have supported ED for so long is'nt arogant?.

 

I think claiming that ED is closing the door in people's faces is pretty darned arrogant too. They have a plan, and right now, they are catering to the LARGE helicopter community which hasn't had a new hard core sim for a LONG time.

And if you can claim they are arrogant, how arrogant are you to presume on knowing more than they about what the market is like, and telling them how to run their business?

People paid $40 or whatever for LO, two years ago. They got patches, they still will likely get another, but LO is over and done with. Live with it.

Why not go complain about EA dropping Jane's or something now?

 

In HL there are approx 12 server only one is A2G and 95% people favour A2A go check the server stats, so yes I am saying that DCS should be primarily A2A, the people who have supported ED for so long deserve this.

Maybe you should start your own company and cater to the A2A crowd then. I like A2A very much myself, but I don't feel like ED owes me another A2A sim. I -want- them to produce one, 'cause I want my hi-fi F-15C, but thinking that they OWE it to anyone? Rather huge, inflated sense of self-entitlement there. Why don't you go see what $100 will buy you in the industry? (I'll make it easy for you: On the cheap side, you might get 60 min of phone support - we're pretty lucky the gaming industry hasn't adopted that ... )

[GGTharos]

If all your stats are from online gaming only, then I can right away say they are dead wrong. There are plenty of squads who practice A2G 'off camera' and plenty of singleton players who do the same - so many they -easily- outweigh the number of people that sum up the HL players - by many, MANY times.

 

First folly of statistics: Picking the wrong sample.

 

It's not what I think, It's what the facts or should I say stats state!, fact is that the vast majority of ED customers are predominantly A2A pilots, even most of the high scoring A2G pilots on HL servers fly fighters more than mud movers, The stats speak for themselves.

 

 

 

?

[SwingKid]

IMHO Two real AFM/WAFM fighters with DC.

 

I'm sorry to tell you this, but "WAFM" for AAMs was already tried for Flaming Cliffs - and failed. It was more complicated than expected, and proved simply too hard for ED to do.

 

Some beta testers apparently don't realize this, and continue to speak about "WAFM for fighters" as if it's something still coming in the future - but nobody hears about it from ED programmers anymore. There are no plans for WAFM beyond air-to-ground weapons - only wishes and hopes, like the fighters themselves.

 

So, if WAFM is what's really important, then ED has chosen the right direction, because only A2G can have it!

 

I am arguing because I think the right direction is a dynamic campaign, and DCS is going head-first in the opposite direction from that.

 

-SK

[GGTharos]

You're not arguing, you're downright naysaying. WAFM for A2G munitions is not that much different than WAFM for A2A munitions; the physics are pretty much the same.

It'll happen, right along with other things. Yep, it's not easy. So what? It'll probably be a lot easier to write it all from scratch and plug it into DCS than it was to plug it into good old FC code.

 

Though WAFM itself isn' all that horribly important ... the sensor/guidance code is more so.

[SwingKid]

lol. I like how people think they know what's good for ED and the community.

 

Indeed. I still haven't seen ED or Carl Norman apologize to Pierre "Papadoc" Legrand, when he was kicked off of the beta team for protesting against Flanker 2.0, and was later proved correct.

 

Do you remember that? Did you like that, too?

 

On the other point, some people don't do things just because it would be simpler. Some people like to set themselves challenges to go beyond what others have done in the past. It's called personal development.

 

Like re-using the Shkval from the Su-25T?

 

Please.

 

-SK

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

I think claiming that ED is closing the door in people's faces is pretty darned arrogant too. They have a plan, and right now, they are catering to the LARGE helicopter community which hasn't had a new hard core sim for a LONG time.

And if you can claim they are arrogant, how arrogant are you to presume on knowing more than they about what the market is like, and telling them how to run their business?

People paid $40 or whatever for LO, two years ago. They got patches, they still will likely get another, but LO is over and done with. Live with it.

Why not go complain about EA dropping Jane's or something now?

 

Maybe you should start your own company and cater to the A2A crowd then. I like A2A very much myself, but I don't feel like ED owes me another A2A sim. I -want- them to produce one, 'cause I want my hi-fi F-15C, but thinking that they OWE it to anyone? Rather huge, inflated sense of self-entitlement there. Why don't you go see what $100 will buy you in the industry? (I'll make it easy for you: On the cheap side, you might get 60 min of phone support - we're pretty lucky the gaming industry hasn't adopted that ... )

 

Hi GG, I didnt not say I disagreed with blackshark being released, It is a good thing! however I do disagree with how ED have shut the door to a majority of A2A pilots by excluding them from their new product DCS for many years to come extremley arogant and quite frankly disrespectful!, but I'm far from the only one who agrees on that.

 

ED owes it's total exsistence in the sim world to it's customer base which is predominatly A2A fighters, So YES ED does owe us.

 

Yes your right the only reason ED are getting away with it is because of the lack of competition.

[GGTharos]

They're not 'getting away with it' ... they're doing good business. If ED doesn't have anything for you in the next little while, I'm sure Fighter Ops will; and since I collect sims I find worthy of my time, I'll be getting that too.

 

And no, the vast majority of ED's customers are NOT A2A guys - at least, I'm pretty sure they aren't. Again ... your statistics are flawed, as they represent 1% or less of the total amount of players. And I suggest you look at the explanations up there ... A2A people ARE drawn to online play because it IS very competitive. This is why you have such a skew within this community - not to mention the Charlie Foxtrot that is the the world of online flight for A2G pilots due to lack of organization and by far, inability of most A2A pilots to actualy coordinate with and defend an A2G package (not that the A2G guys are any good at this administrative task either).

[Colt40Five]

ED has stated their course, so most of this discussion is irrelevant. I do take some comfort from EvilBivol's statement that ED MAY open open LO/FC to more modding. I think this is the best thing they could do. If they make it easier to add new planes (with their own cockpits, refueling ability and the ability to use laser/optically-guided weapons properly) and new terrain, LO can continue to sell for ED and the community will thrive.

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

Indeed. I still haven't seen ED or Carl Norman apologize to Pierre "Papadoc" Legrand, when he was kicked off of the beta team for protesting against Flanker 2.0, and was later proved correct.

 

-SK

 

SK why does this not surprise me one bit?.

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

ED has stated their course, so most of this discussion is irrelevant. I do take some comfort from EvilBivol's statement that ED MAY open open LO/FC to more modding. I think this is the best thing they could do. If they make it easier to add new planes (with their own cockpits, refueling ability and the ability to use laser/optically-guided weapons properly) and new terrain, LO can continue to sell for ED and the community will thrive.

 

 

If we lived in a perfect world this would be a good thing but I'm afraid people are far to dishonest to be allowed to build fighters for LO, I really dont want to be fighting Super fighters.

[GGTharos]

I'm only taking a wild, wild guess here, and guessing that ED won't go quite that far. More modding yes, but altering existing aircrafts or making new pits, I don't think so.

 

ED has stated their course, so most of this discussion is irrelevant. I do take some comfort from EvilBivol's statement that ED MAY open open LO/FC to more modding. I think this is the best thing they could do. If they make it easier to add new planes (with their own cockpits, refueling ability and the ability to use laser/optically-guided weapons properly) and new terrain, LO can continue to sell for ED and the community will thrive.

[GGTharos]

Long story short; the future of A2A in DCS is something no one will really know much about until ED announces a module with an A2A fighter in it. No amount of argument in this thread, or elsewhere, will change this.