Vulkan expectations?

[imacken]

There is a lot of hope for increased performance in VR when Vulkan is implemented in DCS.

 

What are these expectations based on? The only Vulkan game I play is Red Dead Redemption 2, and it has appalling (non VR) performance.

 

Also, recently, I noticed how DCS seems to spread the load across different CPU cores when in VR, but not when using a monitor. See attached TM grabs. Is that something we were expecting to happen in Vulkan?

 

Just not sure what is expected.

[jalfrezi]

From what I've read on Vulkan it seems to suggest you'll only see a difference (maybe 10-15% FPS) if you're CPU bound by spreading the load more efficiently, if you're GPU bound then it will do little to improve your situation.

 

The screenshots of the CPU load may not be related to the DCS.exe, I've noticed other VR related processes seem to suck up a lot of CPU such as the Steam VR Compositor.

[imacken]

From what I've read on Vulkan it seems to suggest you'll only see a difference (maybe 10-15% FPS) if you're CPU bound by spreading the load more efficiently, if you're GPU bound then it will do little to improve your situation.

 

The screenshots of the CPU load may not be related to the DCS.exe, I've noticed other VR related processes seem to suck up a lot of CPU such as the Steam VR Compositor.

 

I take your point, but look at the core 11 graph - the last one. On monitor, that is always 100%, yet in VR, it is much lower. Now, you could then say, I am GPU bound in VR but not on monitor, but the fpsVR figures suggest not, with the GPU usage nowhere near 100%.

[The Falcon]

Just not sure what is expected.

This is imop. Rdr2 is dx12 or vulkan, therefore not dx11. But let's ask ourselves why make a game both DX and Vulkan? why not put the best one directly or why leave them both if in the end they are equal? I will tell you, i don't know if dx12 is as good as vulkan but i am sure that if the developers don't have earnings they will not do the same job, so for me behind games like rdr there is interest in selling video cards.

 

DCS is different, we use already the top of the hardware, improving its performance would increase people's interest and sim sales. So from vulkan I expect a result totally different from that of rdr2, much better :)

[imacken]

This is imop. Rdr2 is dx12 or vulkan, therefore not dx11. But let's ask ourselves why make a game both DX and Vulkan? why not put the best one directly or why leave them both if in the end they are equal? I will tell you, i don't know if dx12 is as good as vulkan but i am sure that if the developers don't have earnings they will not do the same job, so for me behind games like rdr there is interest in selling video cards.

 

DCS is different, we use already the top of the hardware, improving its performance would increase people's interest and sim sales. So from vulkan I expect a result totally different from that of rdr2, much better :)

 

Not sure I understand what point you are making.

 

I wasn't trying to make any comparisons with DCS and RDR2, DX11, DX12 or Vulkan. I referred to RDR2 as it was the only game I play that uses Vulkan, and it is the only game I have played that requires me to play at a lower resolution than 4K because of its appalling performance.

 

You ask why put DX12 and Vulkan as options, but its the same as a lot of games that offer DX11 and DX12. I'm guessing that different APIs suit different hardware setups. Maybe Vulkan is more suited to high end? I don't know.

 

I'm just curious what people's expectations for Vulkan in DCS are and what they are based on.

[some1]

Here's a link to Xplane presentation about Vulcan, currently in development. So it's as close to DCS usage scenario as you could get.

 

[jalfrezi]

I take your point, but look at the core 11 graph - the last one. On monitor, that is always 100%, yet in VR, it is much lower. Now, you could then say, I am GPU bound in VR but not on monitor, but the fpsVR figures suggest not, with the GPU usage nowhere near 100%.

 

 

Yeah, I did see that on your graphs, not entirely sure why DCS on your monitor has a higher single core usage then when in VR, maybe there are already a few VR optimisations already in place - rendering each eye on a separate core perhaps? I'm pretty sure DCS does already run some processes/threads on other cores it's just the OpenGL graphics API is not particularly optimised for modern multi core CPUs, Vulkan should address this.

[The Falcon]

Not sure I understand what point you are making

Do you see much difference by changing between dx12 and vulkan in rdr2? Honestly from the videos that i find i see that there is no difference. For most games it doesn't make a difference between dx11 and dx12, but the hardware changes, in fact not all cards supported dx12. There is certainly a question of hardware sales behind it, the developers have no particular interest in making dx12 go much better than dx11 or vulkan, they must satisfy everyone and at the same time help sell hardware imop. So I don't take rdr2 or similar games as a measure of expectations. For DCS it's different, increasing performance is worthwhile for sales, I expect an important step forward with vulkan :)

[imacken]

Yeah, I did see that on your graphs, not entirely sure why DCS on your monitor has a higher single core usage then when in VR, maybe there are already a few VR optimisations already in place - rendering each eye on a separate core perhaps? I'm pretty sure DCS does already run some processes/threads on other cores it's just the OpenGL graphics API is not particularly optimised for modern multi core CPUs, Vulkan should address this.

 

DCS uses OpenGL?

 

Do you see much difference by changing between dx12 and vulkan in rdr2? Honestly from the videos that i find i see that there is no difference. For most games it doesn't make a difference between dx11 and dx12, but the hardware changes, in fact not all cards supported dx12. There is certainly a question of hardware sales behind it, the developers have no particular interest in making dx12 go much better than dx11 or vulkan, they must satisfy everyone and at the same time help sell hardware imop. So I don't take rdr2 or similar games as a measure of expectations. For DCS it's different, increasing performance is worthwhile for sales, I expect an important step forward with vulkan :)

 

I'll try swapping in RDR2 later, but I have noticed differences between DX11 and DX12. The latest Tomb Raider game was an example, I seem to recall.

 

From what I've read, DX12 and Vulkan do the same job, and I'm interested in why Vulkan is chosen for DCS - when, presumably, DX12 would be an easier conversion - and what actual performance gain we will see for different hardware configurations.

[The Falcon]

From what I've read, DX12 and Vulkan do the same job, and I'm interested in why Vulkan is chosen for DCS - when, presumably, DX12 would be an easier conversion - and what actual performance gain we will see for different hardware configurations.

Good question, I had seen something, i try to find it again

[jalfrezi]

DCS uses OpenGL?

 

 

 

Sorry, no it's not OpenGL based I think it's DX11, I've been reading too much about XPlane! :pilotfly:

[imacken]

Here's a link to Xplane presentation about Vulcan, currently in development. So it's as close to DCS usage scenario as you could get.

 

Thanks for that. Interesting, but AFAICS, the comparison is all with OpenGL in that vid.

[Soontirfel]

I know Aerofly FS2 runs on vulkan and that must be one of the best optimized flight "sims" for vr atm.

I know it does not have to run complicated systems in the background like dcs and xplane for example, But it sure runs like a dream and with a orbx innsbruck or netherlands installed it's demo worthy to show others the capabilities of vr.

[Mr_sukebe]

Xplane is currently running Vulkan in an alpha test. If you look around, it’s possible to find performance comparisons, and it certainly looks worthwhile

[Fri13]

Also, recently, I noticed how DCS seems to spread the load across different CPU cores when in VR, but not when using a monitor. See attached TM grabs. Is that something we were expecting to happen in Vulkan?

 

DCS doesn't spread the load across cores, it is single thread process that just gets transferred across all the cores, jumping on each one by one. You get to see that DCS process is example 100%, but it really is just consuming small percentage of the real core performance but jumps all around places.

 

(yes, the DCS has second thread that is only for audio.)

 

What the Vulcan should bring us, is with the engine rewrite the proper multi-thread support that then allows to utilize the whole GPU far more effectively without CPU bottlenecking everything.

[imacken]

DCS doesn't spread the load across cores, it is single thread process that just gets transferred across all the cores, jumping on each one by one. You get to see that DCS process is example 100%, but it really is just consuming small percentage of the real core performance but jumps all around places.

 

(yes, the DCS has second thread that is only for audio.)

 

What the Vulcan should bring us, is with the engine rewrite the proper multi-thread support that then allows to utilize the whole GPU far more effectively without CPU bottlenecking everything.

 

Did you look at my attachments?

[hansangb]

DCS uses OpenGL?

 

 

 

I'll try swapping in RDR2 later, but I have noticed differences between DX11 and DX12. The latest Tomb Raider game was an example, I seem to recall.

 

From what I've read, DX12 and Vulkan do the same job, and I'm interested in why Vulkan is chosen for DCS - when, presumably, DX12 would be an easier conversion - and what actual performance gain we will see for different hardware configurations.

 

Search for post from SkateZilla. He went into detail about the differences, benefits, etc.