A Sim No One Will Make

[Eagle Driver]

Realistic Fiction.

What I mean is, don't research real planes, with real operations and real XY and Z. Make it up yourself. Not like AceCombat Falken death-plane with lasers all over, I'm talking realistic. I've been designing jets for a while, and I just recently got into drawing the cockpit of my F-189A Tyrannosaur, and I have been having the greatest urge to fly it! For those of you who don't know, (aside from Red Wyvern, that's all of you) the Tyrannosaur is basically a Raptor, but kinda different. I added some things, and probably made some worse. The most notable improvment I can think of is the IRDAR system, InfraRed Detection And Ranging, basically like the IRST of Flankes and stuff, but with much more modern IIR technology, and slewable between -10 and +95 degrees elevation using a Shkval-like think on one of the tailfins. This is just an example of the kind of stuff you can do, you could make a plane like the F-15, Hornet, Flanker, some helicopter, it's up to you *Points to all tens of thousands of DCS forum members*

Remember, when you make it up, it can't be classified. Maybe you have an idea for a RWR that can tell you the range of an emitting radar based on it's type and signal strength, and displays that over a 3D map so you know exactly where it is (I call it EWANS, it's MINE!). The possibilities are endless, you can fix the mistakes and pitfalls of real-life and create some of your own for us simmers to deal with! I personally know one person who has designed an aircraft so magnificent, so revolutionary that an engineer who worked on the Eurofighter was impressed with it. It appears to be a generation ahead of Raptor, and he has more information on it than you can probably find on most 4.5-gen planes, certainly more than is available for F-22. If anyone is interested and has the resources (HAHAHA! Oh, that's a good one!) feel free to PM me and it can be discussed in more detail.

[leafer]

Plane-Maker on steroid? I think it's freaking fantastic. But will we be bound by the current technology? Can we fast forward, say, 60 years where fighters are equipped with more advanced propulsion and weapons.

 

Hovering 20,000 feet above sea level... Check!

Real time camou paint... Check!

Shape shifting... We're still working on that, sir.

 

Count me in. :D

[bradmick]

Well, I definately can say I like that idea. I've been sitting around thinking up a, what I guess could be callled a 'medium attack helicopter'. Something slightly smaller than the Apache, larger than the ARH, capable of carrying the same armament as the Apache as far as Hellfires go using all the new composite metal technologies we have. Instead of stealth like the Comanche, its a simple to produce slick frame with all of its sensors stored internally. It's a short frame, tandem seat arrangement capable of operating in an urban enviroment. For ease of replacement, it will use the same engines as the Apache and the Black Hawk, 701C's. It will be a dual counter rotating rotor system airframe (ala the Ka-50) to make it more survivable in an urban enviroment for the simple fact that theres no tail rotor to shoot off. All of its processing and memory requirements will be taken care of via a 2.3 quad core processor with 4 gigs of ram and a dedicated internal 200 gig hard drive for any map and whatever else data. The aircraft will be armored against small arms only (as that would be its biggest threat in the urban enviroment). 7.62, and in certain areas .50 cal. I honestly, as goofy as it sounds, right now in my head until I get a chance to work up a more complete concept, have what amounts to an EFAB-less AH64D, with an aerodynamic nose, twin rotors with the same heavy duty rotor heads, and the tail chopped off. Eventually i'll get some time to work up a more complete concept. Anyway, those are the basics of mine. I know i'd love to fly it :)

 

Oh, should add that the airframe should be geared towards the three likely areas we'd fight. Desert, Urban, and Eurasian Battlefields.

 

Brad

[Triggerhappy69]

... StOp you gUys.. PleAse STOP..! I aM droOling so muCh my keYboard jUst sHorted..!!

[Avimimus]

Real life speculative work is interesting. This is especially true of research projects made by professional firms. How about this one:

 

Look closely at the fuselage and wings. It is a propfan high maneuverability derivative of the Su-25.

[Eagle Driver]

Pic isn't showing for me...

Anyway, I think that from this we might spawn a "planes you designed" thread or similar, to keep this one more on-track with any sim aspect of it. Opinions?

As for the 60 years from now thing, I'd say that's a bit much, considering that 60 years from now was WWII. It would be hard for someone to realistically envision the F-22 back in 1947, and similarly we don't know what 2067 will bring. For all we know, there might be world peace by then, or worldwide nuclear winter. In 2067, fighters could use scramjets, or have moved away from jets entirely, just as we moved away from pistons after WWII. Aircraft could use lasers, they could dogfight on the moon, we don't know. To really make it realistic, you'd have to really design the whole thing yourself, that means you invent and engineer every part that isn't feasible with today's technology. Definately, we should stay in present-era technology, lest we make it any more jaw-droppingly impossible than it already is.

Now, seeing as there is no "plane designs" thing yet, I'm going to put here a scan of the F-135A, a semi-stealthy aircraft that takes it's biggest advantage from it's missile armament. The missile, not drawn to completion, is called the AAM-120 "JAVLRAAM" and you can read about it in the attached document (requires MS Word... I think.) Aircraft and missile done in AutoCAD... in school!

 

EDIT - Updated JAVLRAAM Files document for first time in 6+ months. Specifically, I adjusted the intercept process to make it more TWS-friendly.

JAVLRAAM Files.doc

[Red Wyvern]

An F-189 sim? Now THAT would be awesome. Hell, I would love it.

[Weta43]

This is mine:

 

 

 

 

 

_____________

l l excuse the small picture

l l Note the advanced control surfaces

l l all I could get in this format

l l JAVLRAAM ready !

 

& it's completely invisible because of its cloaking system.

 

I think that it would be cool to have a sim (Doesn't X-plane allow this ?) where you could create your own design, then see how this design handled etc, then pit it against the designs of others, but only if the designs are constrained by the technology available at the time you're doing the design or some other agreed level (actual existing powerplants & actual fuel ?).

Designing without those constraints is an exercise in design as aesthetics, not design as engineering.

I remember years ago while doing the first year of a design degree (that I left at the end of the year because of what this incident says about the course) we were given an assignment to design a device where the form of the object was supposed to be dictated by the object's function, & the guy who received top marks designed a sheep dogs communicator/controller - something that fitted on the dogs head and another piece that the user talked into & the commands somehow mysteriously were translated into dog instructions.

Now the device looked very cool - nice lines, looked like it was comfortable on teh dog, good choice of colours, but the guy had absolutely no idea what it was going to have on the inside, so all he'd really done was a styling exercise.

Unless there are realistic uniform constraints across all designers in such a sim on what thrust, weight, radar strength, beam coherence, surface radar reflectivity etc the planes can have, everyone will just say "I have an invisible UFO with a million kg thrust & an Aegis radar"

But if you get the ground rules right, this could be a lot of fun & have some interesting ideas come out of it.

[Eagle Driver]

Well, something to consider is that while the technologies you'd use would be realistic, they wouldn't have to be real. For example, the radar on the F-189 is similar to an APG-77, but there's no way we can realistically model an APG-77. The missiles are not real missiles, the guns are not real guns, but it's all pheasible with today's technology. This is what I was aiming for. Just throwing together real parts in a realistic way would be just as bad as trying to model a Raptor, impossible unless you're using old stuff. The challenge is to make it up to the standards of now, but having it be fictional, so classified information becomes a non-issue.

[Aeroscout]

This is all in X-plane. I believe you can put weapons and stuff on it. (Even create your own weapons)

 

I gave up on Plane-Maker and X-plane a long time ago, but there are many people here who would have the patience for it.

 

http://www.x-plane.com

[Geier]

Realistic Fiction.

Not for me;)

[Frostie]

I added some things, and probably made some worse. The most notable improvment I can think of is the IRDAR system, InfraRed Detection And Ranging, basically like the IRST of Flankes and stuff, but with much more modern IIR technology

You mean like the PIRATE system on the Eurofighter.

 

Personally I think its a bit of arcadey idea in the same vein as Need for Speed on the consoles but for jets, the bit I don't get is 'you devise systems better than the worlds greatest engineers and its realistic' nah leave it out.

 

After about a week everyones auntie would be flying around in the same ubber supped up X-Wings which just look different.

[joey45]

Dude thats awesome...

[Eagle Driver]

Suped up uber X-Wings? Did you read the opening post? The whole point of this is to create planes using realistically pheasible technology. I don't think the F-189 would be better than the Raptor, but it would be NICE to deviate from the same problems of 'not enough info' because of stuff being classified. There's a lot of stuff to know and work on, but just because it isn't real doesn't mean it has to be as fake as possible. Also, about beating out the world's top engineers, we'd have an advantage over them in being able to study, look at, and to a certain degree emulate thier work as opposed to starting from F-15 like they did with Raptor. In all likelyhood, the lack of total info would make it harder to create something of DCS or FigtherOps quality, but I think it would be very very feasible to create a fictional 4.5th or maybe 5th generation fighter at the LockOn level. We don't have to model every single fanblade of the engines, the precise dust pattern made by the main gear on a gravel strip, or the voltage used by the AESA, we can just fill it in to create a unique flying experience that cannot be suspect to infringing on classified data or be compared against a real thing by the group of cynics we simmers tend to be.

X-Plane sounds interesting, never really paid attention to it. Is it possible to model radar and weapons systems in that?