petsild Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 The problem with smoke is measurable in two friends with different hardware than I have. It doesn't matter if the user has the latest Graphics card AMD 5700XT or Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti of course the latest drivers. Only I'm still missing a reference track file for the unbelievers. MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4, Kingston 3600 MHz 64 Gb, i5 12600K, Gigabyte RTX 4090, Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus,VKB NXT Premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Well one reason may be that I'm running a custom-config sim with greatly reduced particle counts for smoke, explosions etc. IIRC I did mention this, but the post got deleted since it was (largely) OT. Regardless, that may well be why I'm not seeing anything, although as pointed out already, I've no way of knowing whether I'd suffer an F/S drop if I ran the sim uncapped. But I don't know. I don't seem to be of much help here one way or another, so maybe I'll just leave the thread and hope you'll find a solution to this. S! The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worrazen Posted March 3, 2020 Author Share Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) The problem with smoke is measurable in two friends with different hardware than I have. It doesn't matter if the user has the latest Graphics card AMD 5700XT or Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti of course the latest drivers. Thanks a lot. Only I'm still missing a reference track file for the unbelievers. Wait you're asking me for a track? I guess I forgot about it in the busyness of it earlier (or it got lost in the OT) Here it is: https://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=229195&stc=1&d=1583278297 The way you get out of the Black Smoke Black Hole in the end where the GPU is frozen, is to take a screenshot with MSI Afterburner, it does something to the GPU to interrupt it and that allows the CPU/Process to get out and switch to a different view. In the replay I do switch to a different view (F1) but ofcourse it doesn't work or would take a very long time so I did the same trick, but the trick doesn't travel with the track file, so you have to recreate it yourself, gametime is ofcourse all screwn up and down to a halt, it's a black hole :D Same thing can be achieved by using a profiler and disabling draw calls temporairly.BlackSmoke_F18C_BaseExampleSeaSky.zip Edited March 4, 2020 by Worrazen Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsild Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Is exactly the track that 100% shows this problem. Worrazen I admire your patience that you devote to the topic, thank you :thumbup: great job. Here is my data where you see slump up to 54 fps. MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4, Kingston 3600 MHz 64 Gb, i5 12600K, Gigabyte RTX 4090, Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus,VKB NXT Premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsild Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 I can add that the smoke is a problem even in an older build 2.5.5.41962. MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4, Kingston 3600 MHz 64 Gb, i5 12600K, Gigabyte RTX 4090, Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus,VKB NXT Premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worrazen Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) Note: This report includes the unofficial use of DXVK with DCS to enable AMD RGP to function with DCS. RGP only supports next generation graphics APIs. Therefore the information here may not 100% accurately represent the official circumstances. Performance variations and bugs may be present that wouldn't exist otherwise. Using DXVK may or may not have a performance impact, but it should not magically increase performance or any kind of improved multithreading. There would have been an additional graph if there was async compute and/or multithreading involved as well as more CPU threads, but there is only one in the driver. I believe the changes in this case are minimal, no noticable change in FPS versus the DX11 official scenario so far, same drop happens. Additionally, the tools and it's terminology are all Vulkan based, so you're not suppose to take these literally because in DX11 it's quite a bit different, but I think it is valid for comparing DXVK to DXVK results and their relevancy is only valid if these performance ups/downs are also present with official DX11 cases, if I see major game behavior change due to DXVK then the comparison/test wouldn't even be considered for any serious report, if smaller things happen it will be appropriately marked. More of a overview/statistical report that may be more relevant to most players around here: The scenario: F-18C Barebone Over Open Sea+Sky very far away in Caucasus map. NO SMOKE -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- BLACK SMOKE -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- HIGH ALTITUDE WHITE CONTRAIL SMOKE No valid test possible, the smoke is bugged Edited March 12, 2020 by Worrazen Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealDCSpilot Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 I recommend reading about particle effects in game engines to understand what you see there. The black smoke uses textures with black pixel clouds at high transparency settings. Currently they seem to use too much particles of it with a costly blending mode to achieve it's visual effect. i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worrazen Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 Something like that yes, but I didn't want to speculate about the root cause too much. Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsild Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Hi, yesterday I tested the MP in the last beta and I found that on some servers all the engines excessively smoke more than elsewhere. While taxiing down the runway behind the other aircraft, this has resulted in a drop in framerate on 20 fps which is a disaster. I started searching and found the file exhaustTrailAir.lua, where its parameters are causing a huge drop in fps. Actually, just change one value and all of the sudden after the problem. In the single player game is the framerate almost constant, but due to the control integrity, you cannot use multiplayer. Please ED improve the behavior of the smoke, thank you very much. x:\DCS World 2.5\Config\Effects\ParticleSystem2\exhaustTrailAir.lua ParticlesLimit = 1200, to ParticlesLimit = 120, MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4, Kingston 3600 MHz 64 Gb, i5 12600K, Gigabyte RTX 4090, Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus,VKB NXT Premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted March 23, 2020 ED Team Share Posted March 23, 2020 Excessive engine smoke has been reported and will hopefully be in the next update. thanks Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsild Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Good news :) thank you. MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4, Kingston 3600 MHz 64 Gb, i5 12600K, Gigabyte RTX 4090, Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus,VKB NXT Premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakedoc Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 can confirm. *note: I have an fps limiter set to 60. Smoke density set at 10. Little test track which shows the issue. F/A18C hornet, when black smokes comes out from the exhaust the fps drops from 60 to 22. As soon as the smoke disappears the fps go back to 60. Note the fps counter top left of the screenexhaust smoke fps drop.trk ASUS ROG STRIX Z490 F-GAMING | i7-10700K | RTX3090 TUF OC | 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz | Windows 10 64bit | Acer Predator X34P | TrackIR 5 | TM Warthog | TM T.Flight Rudder Pedals A-10C | A-10C II | F/A-18C | F-16C | FC3 | PG | Syria | SC Home made F-16C simulator Forum Thread: DCS World forum - The Viper Project - Home Cockpits Instagram: The Viper Project YouTube The Viper Project - Youtube channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worrazen Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 ^^ Thanks for your report! So we have a more solid case and what type of HW it's affecting. Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsild Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 As well acts on the i7-7700k or AMD 2700x and 3700x. I found out about the problem is knows since 2014 which is worrying! http://forums.eagle.ru:8080/showthread.php?t=126919 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=122410 MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4, Kingston 3600 MHz 64 Gb, i5 12600K, Gigabyte RTX 4090, Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus,VKB NXT Premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worrazen Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) As well acts on the i7-7700k or AMD 2700x and 3700x. I found out about the problem is knows since 2014 which is worrying! http://forums.eagle.ru:8080/showthread.php?t=126919 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=122410 I don't remember seeing this distinct black engine exhaust smoke way back then ... but I did remember the lag from the old standard smoke-generator smoke, if you left it on during landing it would lag a whole lot when it got super dense as you were stopping, probably does the same today ... perhaps less, I had a much weaker GPU back then with only 2GB of VRAM then I foiled the replacement with a wrong one and only later got a proper one I have now. EDIT: http://forums.eagle.ru:8080/showpost.php?p=2117434&postcount=2 That definitely sounds kinda very similar, I'll have a look at it ... well I don't think it's possible to go back to a 2014 build but I could try the mod that is mentioned. Edited May 12, 2020 by Worrazen Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsild Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 check it out When testing this bug affects the Supercarrier. The borrowed track file time of 1:34s, aircraft ready right at the catapult just after the start subsequently fall down fps to 20 frames. Hot-fix x:\Xxx\DCS World 2.5\Config\Effects\ParticleSystem2\ExhaustTrailAir.Lua ParticlesLimit = 0, LODdistance = 0, SpinDir = 0,Please ED fix this unpleasant feature. MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4, Kingston 3600 MHz 64 Gb, i5 12600K, Gigabyte RTX 4090, Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus,VKB NXT Premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petsild Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 Will be in the upcoming big update bug fixed? @Bignewy thank you for the information. MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4, Kingston 3600 MHz 64 Gb, i5 12600K, Gigabyte RTX 4090, Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus,VKB NXT Premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milopapa Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Let me add, that I've upgraded to a 3090 just recently and set up a dedicated server in my home just so I can offload as much AI from my VR PC as I can... and all is quite smooth even at 3000px vertical resolution in VR, EXCEPT when there is smoke on the screen. Not just engine exhaust, but bullet hits on the ground, smoke from damaged and destroyed vehicles... It basically kills the frametime completely. When the smoke is gone, framerate is back to smooth. PC HW: i5 3770k@4.6GHz | Asus 1080Ti | 16GB DDR3 | Samsung 850 EVO | MSI MPower Z77 Input: MS FFB2 w/ F-16 FLCS grip | CH Pro Throttle | MFG Crosswind | HTC Vive DCS modules: F-14, FW-190, P-51, Bf109, UH1, Mi-8, FC3, CE2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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