SU-25KM maybe ?

[Boberro]

Russia always make something models and abandon it. Made Su25 upgraded it to 25TM or Skorpion and doesn't produce it. Doesn't produce and keep data in secret.

 

Su25TM would be great even if Russia has 2 operating 25TM - Ka50 also isn't "populated" (don't know if it is true but about ten Ka-50 are operating...) and is modelled.

[Malleus]

Just to be precise, the KM aka Scorpion is not Russian - those are Georgian planes upgraded with the help of an Israeli firm. And I guess there's no way in hell they'd share detailed info about them with a Russian game/sim developer...

[Weta43]

Russia always make something models and abandon it.

 

As for most of your posts about Russia's military actions, you make it sound like they abandoned the idea out of some inate, perverse stupidity.

 

They didn't have a whole lot of choice about it - they were broke & couldn't afford to deploy new aircraft - they could barely afford to keep what they had in the skies.

 

Now they have a few petro-dollars (Gazprom-rubles ?) behind them, they're starting to pick those projects up again (& their pilots flight hours).

[Weta43]

The Russian Air Force is getting the SM upgrade, so it would be nice, but info might be trick & most of their fleet is still Su-25'A' so that would be a good place to start (also as a jet trainer - which it is being sold commercially as - admittedly a two seater, but the military single seater would serve as well).

[Force_Feedback]

Su-28, to hell with all that armor and pylons, we want an aerobatic AFM bird, with realistic operating costs (yes, the Yak-130 would be a wet dream come true, BUT, a bit classified). How's that for an add-on? Basically your Su-25T minus the heavy armor and the pylons, weapons and all the crap that takes up weight to facilitate that stuff.

 

OR ED could realease some AFM tweaking tool for Flaming Cliffs, and let the modders do all the moddeling, while the hardcore simboys will tweak the flight models to suit their performance needs. And the Su-25 can't be used to carry long range missiles, so whining from online gamers, who constantly b**ch about cheaters and other paranoid crap, will not be justified.

Su-25 tweaker tool/command line/.lua/whatever for Flaming Cliffs plz :P

[Olgerd]

AFM 'tweaking' tool is nearly impossible. It should be rather a complete SDK. We keep in mind the modular structure, but there are no plans to release such SDK yet.

[Avimimus]

AFM 'tweaking' tool is nearly impossible. It should be rather a complete SDK. We keep in mind the modular structure, but there are no plans to release such SDK yet.

 

Thanks for the info. It is good to know about the status of the Rook and it is also interesting to see that you are somewhat open minded about what is possible in terms of opening up FC.

 

I personally would prefer to see a SFM sdk and some of the avionics opened up. I have really enjoyed the flyall mod, despite the poor FM and the fact that most aircraft don't have functioning targeting systems (Mig-31 R-33 complex, laser guided missiles etc.)

 

If ED could put together a volunteer team, with non disclosure agreements to habilitate the non-flyables it might work out.

 

The benefits:

- It would give us a survey sim at the expense of primarily volunteer work

- The closed team would mean that there would be almost no worry about cheaters modifying FMs

- The last upshot is that the quality would be low enough there would be no competition whatsoever with the DCS series (and if anything it would attract interest).

 

Anyway, I thought I would mention the idea.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Just to be precise, the KM aka Scorpion is not Russian - those are Georgian planes upgraded with the help of an Israeli firm.

That is the rason I did not mention KM in my post #24.

[EvilBivol-1]

"Currently, small numbers of Su-25T aircraft are being operated by the Russian Air Force."

 

Source:

Sukhoi Su-25 Frogfoot, close air support aircraft by Yefim Gordon and Alan Dawes.

 

 

I don't know if TM ever entered production stage.

My understanding is that none of the few Su-25Ts built ever made it past the Lipetsk test and training center to any combat squadron. That is to say the aircraft was never accepted into Air Force service because it did not finish being evaluated by the air force testers. Even the Lipetsk birds have been dumped or sold IIRC. The Su-25T and TM, in all likelihood, have no future with the Russian or any other air force.

 

The Su-25SM is what the Russian AF is actually getting (and has already gotten a few of) and now its two-seat version, the Su-25UBM, is about to undergo company testing. No word if the two-seater will end up in service.

[Malleus]

Huh? Some sources say (that book, among others) that the Su-25T saw action in Chechnya, and also that Ethiopia received two of them in early 2000 (yes, Su-25Ts), and used them in combat during the final phase of the war with Eritrea. So how much of this is true, then?

[Olgerd]

Thanks for the info. It is good to know about the status of the Rook and it is also interesting to see that you are somewhat open minded about what is possible in terms of opening up FC.

 

I personally would prefer to see a SFM sdk and some of the avionics opened up. I have really enjoyed the flyall mod, despite the poor FM and the fact that most aircraft don't have functioning targeting systems (Mig-31 R-33 complex, laser guided missiles etc.)

 

If ED could put together a volunteer team, with non disclosure agreements to habilitate the non-flyables it might work out.

 

The benefits:

- It would give us a survey sim at the expense of primarily volunteer work

- The closed team would mean that there would be almost no worry about cheaters modifying FMs

- The last upshot is that the quality would be low enough there would be no competition whatsoever with the DCS series (and if anything it would attract interest).

 

Anyway, I thought I would mention the idea.

 

SFM itseft is far from to be settled down as a steady piece of code. Yes it is, despite of the fact that is much more old than AFM. We would like to change it to a 'simplified AFM' form in future. Before of that, it is too early to talk about any SDKs. Overwise we would get two pretty different code parts, which do similar things by their nature. It is unefficient.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Yes, it was rumoured that Ethiopia received 2 Su-25TKs (downgraded export models) but this was not confirmed as they have never been seen. Only artist expressions exist.

"No flying example of the export variant (Su-25TK) was ever built ..."

is the quote form the book:

 

Sukhoi Su-25 Frogfoot, close air support aircraft by Yefim Gordon and Alan Dawes.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

My understanding is that none of the few Su-25Ts built ever made it past the Lipetsk test and training center to any combat squadron. That is to say the aircraft was never accepted into Air Force service because it did not finish being evaluated by the air force testers. Even the Lipetsk birds have been dumped or sold IIRC. The Su-25T and TM, in all likelihood, have no future with the Russian or any other air force.

The same book (see above post) lists the targets taken out by Su-25T during the second Chechen campaign. Although it does say that the Su-25T were flown on a "trial basis". One can speculate about the meaning of the “trial basis”.

 

However, publicly available information clearly states that "small numbers of Su-25T's are being operated by Russian Air Force".

[Avimimus]

SFM itseft is far from to be settled down as a steady piece of code. Yes it is, despite of the fact that is much more old than AFM. We would like to change it to a 'simplified AFM' form in future. Before of that, it is too early to talk about any SDKs. Overwise we would get two pretty different code parts, which do similar things by their nature. It is unefficient.

 

Thanks Olgerd.

 

The same book (see above post) lists the targets taken out by Su-25T during the second Chechen campaign. Although it does say that the Su-25T were flown on a "trial basis". One can speculate about the meaning of the “trial basis”.

 

However, publicly available information clearly states that "small numbers of Su-25T's are being operated by Russian Air Force".

 

Yes, but Yefim Gordon isn't always accurate... actually sometimes he isn't often accurate...

 

But, you have to remember, of course, that the scenarios in DCS happened in another timeline (thankfully) where the Russian's felt enough pressure they conducted massive upgrades and bought the Ka-50 and Su-25T.

[Malleus]

This is what I was led to believed also. To expand further on this info, these birds were the 6 that were sold to Iran last year. Another 12 are to be assembled by the Ulan-Ude Aviation Plant for Iran from previously manufactured parts.

 

Hmm, indeed, after searching a bit, I found reports that Su-25Ts were being sold to Iran. I guess that could mean that Russia is getting rid of these planes.

Though some sources say RuAF planned to order at least 50 of the aircraft, but this was around the millennium. Also, some say that back in 1997 Georgia (whom supposedly still have some unfinished Su-25Ts at what once was Sukhoi's manufacturing plant in Tbilisi) also wanted to acquire some of these birds - looks like they settled with the Scorpion after all.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Hmm, indeed, after searching a bit, I found reports that Su-25Ts were being sold to Iran.

What was happening with the Su-25T's before they were "sold to Iran"? Also, where did you find reports you are referring to?

[Malleus]

What was happening with the Su-25T's before they were "sold to Iran"? Also, where did you find reports you are referring to?

 

I have no reason to doubt that the planes saw combat in Chechnya, but that was in 2000. Since then, they were most likely just airshow material.

 

Also, the Iranian arms deal happened in 2006, so the Su-25 book obviously has no info in it, since it was published in 2004.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2006/07/25/208010/farnborough-first-export-for-su-25t.html

http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/jdw/jdw060913_1_n.shtml

http://www.menewsline.com/stories/2006/february/02_08_1.html

(sometimes they mess up the designation, but I think it's obvious that they're talking about the T model)

[multiviper]

Nice find Gas

[Triggerhappy69]

I just love the Su-25 series aircraft. And I for one would set asisde building the KA-50 Pit if there was a fully operational Su-25 cockpit. Even as a LOFC add-on (and yes..I WOULD pay for it.)

 

I while ago I came across a french dokument that had ALL, and I mean ALL, the switches in the Su-25A Cockpit explained. So either the secresy of the pit's functions can't be that tight, or someone had a great deal of imagination when he wrote it..

 

Being under the understanding that the A-10 fully operational pit is forthcoming. And also knowing we have some "more than half decent" programmers in our comunity, I proporse that we try work with what we have and make the "frog-A" a semi functional cockpit?

 

The plans for a simple "clip-on-desk" two monitor, two pc's hybryd cockpit is in my planbook already. The project was halted when I found that the left panels controlling the electrics, APU, Radios, NAV systems (Why in the name of whoever did they those to leave out the "go-around-left" or "go-around-right" functions on the 25's HSI I will never never understand..? Because that would make egressing to do another attack so much easyer..

 

So all you programmers out there.. how about going forwards with a goog example..?

 

 

 

Ps. mayby this should be posted on the lockon forum...?

PPs. I'll attach the previously mentioned document as soon as I get home..

 

And here are the first 5 pages:

[ATTACH]252[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]253[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]254[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]255[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]256[/ATTACH]

[Triggerhappy69]

and the next five

 

Here's the last five:

[ATTACH]257[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]258[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]259[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]260[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]261[/ATTACH]

 

NOW READ THIS..! I can NOT take any credit for anything but translating this magnicificant document from French to english.. It was originally written by someone I can't remember the name of.. But whoever you are.. UOY ROCK DUDE..!:thumbup:

[GreyStork]

Just checking - is it intentional that pages 6/7 and 9/10 are identical?