How many igla's?

[tflash]

If you place an Igla shooter, how many missiles can he fire in the game?

 

I have the impression he keeps firing till you kill him. But IRL, I guess a typical 2-men insurgent igla-shooter group would sport 2 Igla's at the most, no?

 

It would be more realistic if it were a pair (one with binoculars, carrying the second igla, and one who is aiming an igla), and that they can fire 2 rounds, I presume?

[GGTharos]

This is true, but given that your little igla guy can't move and isn't too smart about when and how to shoot you, well ...

Also I'll point out that this is true of small stinger/igla insurgent teams, but air defense teams will be much better equipped.

[Geier]

If you place an Igla shooter, how many missiles can he fire in the game?

 

I have the impression he keeps firing till you kill him. But IRL, I guess a typical 2-men insurgent igla-shooter group would sport 2 Igla's at the most, no?

 

It would be more realistic if it were a pair (one with binoculars, carrying the second igla, and one who is aiming an igla), and that they can fire 2 rounds, I presume?

 

Afaik every sam Igla/Stinger shooter has 2-4 rockets. Not sure of course;)

[SoaringEagle74]

Ok. Lets assume your flying at a reasonably low altitude of say 1000-1500 meters agl. Unless, that igla or stinger has been marked as a target by the mission creator(and a target marker is available in the hud) or ground labels are enabled how can you possibly see that insurgant "ant"(for lack of a better term) when your not even aware of his presence? And don't tell me I have to constantly switch between cockpit and map views because this is not very practical. The only real give away is when he shoots in front of you...right? Then if your paying close attention while flying the waypoints you bank hard left or hard right while incorporating a dive and hopefully you avoid getting rammed.

 

By the way, in lock-on it seems they have an unlimited arsenal of missiles because when I was flying back to base after a successful mission I was fired upon again.

[GGTharos]

Why are you flying that low? Fly at 4000m and they cannot reach you. There's zero reson to fly low during transit - it's bad for fuel economy and it's quite obviously bad for your health, too. When over the target area, have your flares going, make your attack fast and then get out of there.

 

Why should you be able to see him anyway? Realistically they are nigh-impossible to see.

[SoaringEagle74]

Why are you flying that low? Fly at 4000m and they cannot reach you. There's zero reson to fly low during transit - it's bad for fuel economy and it's quite obviously bad for your health, too. When over the target area, have your flares going, make your attack fast and then get out of there.

 

Why should you be able to see him anyway? Realistically they are nigh-impossible to see.

 

An obvious reason to fly low would be to avoid being detected by sam radar and also to monitor enemy traffic while flying waypoints on a cas mission. Actually, the 1000 meter agl example I used above is a poor example because if your going to fly low then a 100m agl maximum celing would be advisable. The way I see it is ever go very low or very high. Anything in between is hot, aka "no mans land".

 

Off course, a lot would depend on the actual mission at hand and since all sensable pilots read their briefing before take off they would know what course to follow before taking off.

 

Also, I consider myself somewhat of a dare-devil.:D

[GGTharos]

Then live with the consequences of your flying and quit complaining about it. ;)

If you are going to run around flying low when you can fly high, you deserve to be ripped by the SHORAD.

If you have to fly low to avoid enemy med and hi-alt air defense, you're just playing into their game and now you have to decide what's more dangerous to you ... them, or the SHORAD?

It is also a poor way to do CAS, since lfying low means you see less.

 

I suggest reading Haun's 'A-10's Over Kosovo'.

 

And, 1000m AGL /is/ low. 100 is NOE.

[SoaringEagle74]

Then live with the consequences of your flying and quit complaining about it. ;)

If you are going to run around flying low when you can fly high, you deserve to be ripped by the SHORAD.

If you have to fly low to avoid enemy med and hi-alt air defense, you're just playing into their game and now you have to decide what's more dangerous to you ... them, or the SHORAD?

It is also a poor way to do CAS, since lfying low means you see less.

 

I suggest reading Haun's 'A-10's Over Kosovo'.

 

And, 1000m AGL /is/ low. 100 is NOE.

 

What is SHORAD and NOE? If you are trying to do a SEAD and CAS mission solo then flying low is the best option unless of course your flying stealth. If you think I am bs'ing you ask any trained real pilot. Fly at 4000 meters and a medium to high altitude sam will shread you to pieces.

 

Fly at a medium-low altitude and aa or a manpad will get you.

 

Remember the american u-2 spy plane shot down in russia...it was flying very high. Also, do you remember how the israeli af attacked egyptian airbases...they didn't do it by flying high!

 

Cheers

[GGTharos]

SHORAD is short range air defense - guns, flak, MANPADS, OSAs, TORs, etc.

NOE is nap of the earth.

 

What is SHORAD and NOE?

 

Why are you flying solo SEAD or CAS? That's mistake number one. It's not done - but yeah, I get it, it's a game.

 

If you are trying to do a SEAD and CAS mission solo then flying low is the best option unless of course your flying stealth.

 

I think you're BSing. Again, read Haun's A-10 over Kosovo. It IS written with testimonies from REAL PILOTS who FLEW IN COMBAT. There's Iraq ones as well. They all flew HIGH.

 

The whole NOE flying thing was a Cold War contraption where flying low allowed you to avoid the more accurate radar SAMs, but you had to live with the fact that you'd lose aircraft to SHORAD. In other words, you'd get nailed one way or another, the only difference was which was more likely to kill more of your planes.

 

If you think I am bs'ing you ask any trained real pilot. Fly at 4000 meters and a medium to high altitude sam will shread you to pieces.

 

Fly at a medium-low altitude and aa or a manpad will get you.

 

Yes, that was at a time when no one believed in SAMs. So what?

The attack on enemy bases was actually hi-lo-hi. Further, unlike LOMAC, in reality you have to pop up to attack since your own weapons can shred you - and when you pop up, you stick yourself right out there in the SHORAD envelope.

 

Remember the american u-2 spy plane shot down in russia...it was flying very high. Also, do you remember how the israeli af attacked egyptian airbases...they didn't do it by flying high!

 

Cheers

[tflash]

read this SoaringEagle: http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_050a.html

 

It comes with a lot of quotes from Haun's book. Imho the whole point with A-10 in Lockon at least is to do the Manpad/AAA dance. As GGtharos said, you're safer at altitude. Normally, they don't send in A-10's if there are still big SAM sites operational in an area.

 

You do not need labels in Lockon. Just fly high enough first, so that Tors, Schilka's and other Strela's shoot at you but you can evade them popping flares. You then see where they're firing from.

 

Nice thing is you see the black little dots, and with the Mav-D seeker you can even identify the type of vehicle from beyond their reach.

 

Don't mind the igla's. Just flare, flare flare and stay high enough. If you're really looking for a bad day, put some low-level fog over the terrain.

 

In Kosovo, they faced:

 

- low clouds;

- fog allover;

- accidented terrain;

- excellent terrain masking by cunning, smart opponents;

- lots of woods hiding lots of Manpads and other IR goodies

 

The other guys were much worse off ... they faced the A-10!

[SoaringEagle74]

Why are you flying solo SEAD or CAS? That's mistake number one. It's not done - but yeah, I get it, it's a game..

 

Your right. Normally CAS and SEAD missions are performed by separate, specialized teams and not solo but its a game and I like to challenge myself a little.;)

 

 

I think you're BSing. Again, read Haun's A-10 over Kosovo. It IS written with testimonies from REAL PILOTS who FLEW IN COMBAT. There's Iraq ones as well. They all flew HIGH..

 

Thats probably because they had neutralized the ewr and sams so the only possible threat was from shorad. I am not pretending to be a general lol...all this stuff has been talked about in gulf war documentaries.

 

 

The whole NOE flying thing was a Cold War contraption where flying low allowed you to avoid the more accurate radar SAMs, but you had to live with the fact that you'd lose aircraft to SHORAD. In other words, you'd get nailed one way or another, the only difference was which was more likely to kill more of your planes.

 

Yes, that was at a time when no one believed in SAMs. So what?

The attack on enemy bases was actually hi-lo-hi. Further, unlike LOMAC, in reality you have to pop up to attack since your own weapons can shred you - and when you pop up, you stick yourself right out there in the SHORAD envelope.

 

I mostly agree with the above. It all depends on the mission at hand.

[GGTharos]

Neither the F-16 or F-117 were shot down by SHORAD. ;) But they were much more likely to had they been flying low! Very much the same with the A-10's. Whenevr they'd come down for a run, they'd face MANPADS and flak.

I'd say that quite obviously, EWR and SAMs were not exactly neutralized.

 

Thats probably because they had neutralized the ewr and sams so the only possible threat was from shorad. I am not pretending to be a general lol...all this stuff has been talked about in gulf war documentaries.

[SoaringEagle74]

Neither the F-16 or F-117 were shot down by SHORAD. ;) But they were much more likely to had they been flying low! Very much the same with the A-10's. Whenevr they'd come down for a run, they'd face MANPADS and flak.

I'd say that quite obviously, EWR and SAMs were not exactly neutralized.

 

Are you trying to confuse me?:D

 

If not then you are contradicting yourself because early warning radar and sams are not shorad. However, manpads and flak(more correctly aaa) are!:P

[GGTharos]

Sorry, I actually didn't put enough detail in there. An F-16 and F-117 were shot down by SAMs over Kosovo. But none of those aircraft were ever touched by SHORAD. That's two aircraft out of how many THOUSANDS of sorties. And although EWR and SAMs were compromized, they were obviously not eliminated or neutralized or whatever you like to call it. Similar things happened in Iraq.

 

In other words ... nail the longer range stuff from afar or have another flight do it and fly high.

[SoaringEagle74]

Exactly. Now I agree 100%.:)

 

They always try to eliminate ewr, sams, communication lines and all other vital threats asap before going cas.

 

I'll see you later...going for dinner soon. By the way, are you greek or cypriot by any chance? Tharos is a greek word for courage.;)

 

Giasou patrioti kai kalo kouragio.

[GGTharos]

I understand what you wrote in greek yes. ;)

[Traccer]

But, the Question was, how many Rounds they are able to fire.

I have survived 5 Rockets shot by 1 Igla within 5 Minutes!! (It was only a Test) :music_whistling: Ok, in Rl they probably run away after the first shot, but in Game this is way too much.

Isґnt it possible the manage their stock via meinit.Xml??

 

I read somewhere, a Manpad Team can reload within a Minute (or so), but i dont think this is practicable or useful ?!?

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

An F-16 and F-117 were shot down by SAMs over Kosovo.

Not correct.

 

Neither F-16, nor F-117 was shut down over Kosovo and Metohija.

[Highwayman-Ed]

You should never spot a MANPAD until it fires as in real life these guys are hardly likely to stand out in the middle of a field and wave at you. So making them hard to find is ok in my book.

 

The problem I have is that they carry too many rounds, in my experience they will pop off a missile every couple of minutes, and also that they are stationary targets. I'd like to see them given the ability to move around in built up areas and forrests, but then I'd also like to see terrain masking and collision models for trees too ;)

[cool_t]

Right!

 

If you place an Igla shooter, how many missiles can he fire in the game?

 

I have the impression he keeps firing till you kill him. But IRL, I guess a typical 2-men insurgent igla-shooter group would sport 2 Igla's at the most, no?

 

It would be more realistic if it were a pair (one with binoculars, carrying the second igla, and one who is aiming an igla), and that they can fire 2 rounds, I presume?

 

Well one thing forsure is that LOMAC does not take into the "FACT" that if your F-15c is going "Mach 1.1" At sea level flying past the "Igla" Dude, your Jet Shock Wave would Render Him Useless.

 

So I propose, nial It with your Cannons.

 

Glendesik has many Good Targets on RAF server.

 

:thumbup:

[Geier]

Not correct.

 

Neither F-16, nor F-117 was shut down over Kosovo and Metohija.

 

 

Really? You're *not* right at all

 

reaf this

http://www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm

[VMFA117_Poko]

Yeah, I remember news in tele with Serbs holding a wing of F-117 saying "sorry, we didn't know it's stealth".

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Really? You're *not* right at all

 

reaf this

http://www.aeronautics.ru/f117down.htm

F-117 went down near the village of Budjanovci („Буђановци“) in the part of Serbia called “Šumadija“, far away from Kosovo. F-16 went down somwehre within that same area as well. Therefore, neither of the two were shut down „over“ Kosovo and Metohija.

[nscode]

And btw, that article is clueless about how it was done.. (and so was everyone at that time). Basically, it was done with a modified Neva system. You can google for more info, or even search this forum.. both Hajduk and my self wrote about it several times.

 

As for the igla-type events over Kosovo, the most famous is that A-10 that got it's engine hit, and soon repaired. (can't give you any quick link at this time, I'm expecting a visit.. :))