ACLS

[VIXEN413]

Hi all,

 

Any news on the ACLS functionality for the hornet?

 

Now that we are getting the SC, it would be awesome and fitting to get the ACLS working.

So it goes with A/P coupling, link 4 page and new hud symbology.

All infos are in NATOPS so it should be rather easy to model...

 

I know the f18 road map is saying it's coming but when... Dunno.

 

BR

[majapahit]

Just found the stories from the "PBS Carrier - Landing on a Pitching Deck" 2005 documentary crew. 17 filmmakers shot 1,600 hours of film on the Nimitz, and this one producer states

" .. When (skipper Dave) Fravor threads the needle and lands (last in insane midnight weather), there is an uproar. .. Fravor gets that cigar with the Admiral, claiming he landed on autopilot .. "

 

Wait what? This is ACLS 15 years ago.

[G B]

Just found the stories from the "PBS Carrier - Landing on a Pitching Deck" 2005 documentary crew. 17 filmmakers shot 1,600 hours of film on the Nimitz, and this one producer states

" .. When (skipper Dave) Fravor threads the needle and lands (last in insane midnight weather), there is an uproar. .. Fravor gets that cigar with the Admiral, claiming he landed on autopilot .. "

 

Wait what? This is ACLS 15 years ago.

 

 

What's the actual question here? Yes, ACLS has been around for a long time.

 

 

Fravor was joking around.

 

 

 

There is no doubt that Fravor flew the ball himself. First, there is audio of him calling the ball "auto." If he had been flying a Mode 1, he would've called the ball "coupled."

 

 

Second, the deck was pitching way out of limits for a Mode 1 that night.

[majapahit]

What's the actual question here? Yes, ACLS has been around for a long time.

Fravor was joking around.

There is no doubt that Fravor flew the ball himself. First, there is audio of him calling the ball "auto." If he had been flying a Mode 1, he would've called the ball "coupled."

Second, the deck was pitching way out of limits for a Mode 1 that night.

a. When Fravor would call out "auto" why should that not be Mode1. b. There is no radio 'auto" heard in the landing scene c. the film crew mentioned Fravor said he landed on autopilot d. "Fravor was joking" cannot be verified e. a senior skipper on his last squadron trap who puts his F18 on auto in horrible weather to see what happens will be commended by plenty of people at McDonnell Douglas f. such a skipper might make it to commander f. unless your callsign happens to be 'sex' there is only circumstantial hearsay and second guessing about what he supposedly meant, or not meant.

Edited May 16, 2020 by majapahit

[G B]

a. When Fravor would call out "auto" why should that not be Mode1. b. There is no radio 'auto" heard in the landing scene c. the film crew mentioned Fravor said he landed 'auto' d. "Fravor was joking" cannot be verified e. a senior skipper on his last squadron trap who puts his F18 on auto in horrible weather to see what happens will be commended by plenty of people at McDonnell Douglas f. such a skipper might make it to commander f. unless your callsign happens to be 'sex' there is only circumstantial hearsay and second guessing about what he supposedly meant, or not meant.

 

 

a. auto means autothrottles, not coupled autoland.

b. edited

c. the film crew said he landed auto, auto means autothrottles, not coupled autoland.

d. You're right, I just inferred it from a-c

e. cannot be verified

f. true

 

 

g. the ship cannot support an automatic landing in those deck conditions

h. Sex would get more respect for doing a manual landing (using autothrottles), rather than having the computer do it (a coupled autoland, aka a Mode 1).

 

 

EDIT: edited, i admit I did not hear his voice call the ball auto for that pass. First off the WSO calls the ball (if they did back when this was filmed), and I was thinking of a different pass. My mistake. i deleted point B

Edited May 16, 2020 by G B

[majapahit]

a. auto means autothrottles, not coupled autoland.

b. yes there is audio of his voice saying that

c. the film crew said he landed auto, auto means autothrottles, not coupled autoland.

d. You're right, I just inferred it from a-c

e. cannot be verified

f. true

 

 

g. the ship cannot support an automatic landing in those deck conditions

h. Sex would get more respect for doing a manual landing (using autothrottles), rather than having the computer do it (a coupled autoland, aka a Mode 1).

Actually the film crew wrote " .. Fravor gets that cigar with the Admiral, claiming he landed on autopilot .. "

A skipper pilot Favor calling out ' .. I'm coming in in way beyond horrible weather in a pitch black night with my left hand not touching the - auto - throttle .. '

seems the dumbest thing ever, as in rather insane.

Whilst putting his Hornet in Mode1 and monitoring if it holds steady in an ample fuel recovery, not so much.

For that appears to be rather rational if ACLS is NATOPS standard recovery procedure in CASE I II III 2008 to be found on the web, and done day and night.

This rather defeats the arguments against he was not serious when it was noted he "claiming he landed on autopilot". And only f. remains.

Edited May 16, 2020 by majapahit

[G B]

Actually the film crew wrote " .. Fravor gets that cigar with the Admiral, claiming he landed on autopilot .. "

A skipper pilot Favor calling out ' .. I'm coming in in way beyond horrible weather in a pitch black night with my left hand not touching the - auto - throttle .. '

seems the dumbest thing ever, as in rather insane.

Whilst putting his Hornet in Mode1 and monitoring if it holds steady in an ample fuel recovery, not so much.

For that appears to be rather rational if ACLS is NATOPS standard recovery procedure in CASE I II III 2008 to be found on the web, and done day and night.

This rather defeats the arguments against he was not serious when it was noted he "claiming he landed on autopilot". And only f. remains.

 

 

Ok. I will have to guess that the film crew knows the technical terminology of both the jets and the ships, as well as flying procedures.

 

 

If Fravor did land on autopilot, then he was deviating out of the limits of the system based on the pitching deck. If Mode 1s could handle those deck conditions, every pilot would've used it.

 

 

 

At 8:20 in the video below you hear the actual ball call. I edited my previous post before you replied to it apologizing for saying that the ball call said "AUTO." But the word "COUPLED" is not said, which is required when the jet does the landing via a Mode 1. There are a number of steps to get a Mode 1 going, so it's unlikely that was just omitted randomly.

 

 

 

HOWEVER, if there are quotes and actual discussions that Fravor says he did a Mode 1, then you win. I can't and won't argue that.

 

 

edit: I am not saying you're wrong about the producers and those conversations with the Admiral. I am not familiar with them. I am just discussing this from the ACLS perspective, which is what I thought this thread was about. I have no problem with being wrong if those behind the scenes things do completely confirm it, and I don't deny your honesty about it.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2020 by G B

[maxTRX]

I watched it long time ago. If he was on ACLS, why was CATCC so mesmerized with his performance and the guys in the ready room making bets :D

 

Anyways... speaking of cdr. Fravor (completely OT). Just happened to watch his interview with J Rogan. Somehow I missed it before. Yea, it was about the 'objects' and the stuff I haven't heard before. He spoke really favorably about AESA radars... w/o getting too chatty about it:D

[majapahit]

Ok. I will have to guess that the film crew knows the technical terminology of both the jets and the ships, as well as flying procedures.

If Fravor did land on autopilot, then he was deviating out of the limits of the system based on the pitching deck.

not substantiated, no civi knows the limits of ACLS

If Mode 1s could handle those deck conditions, every pilot would've used it.

not substantiated, civil KLM pilots hand fly heavy weather in, for 'exercise', then again just as many airliners don't allow their pilots to do that. At all.

 

At 8:20 in the video below you hear the actual ball call. I edited my previous post before you replied to it apologizing for saying that the ball call said "AUTO." But the word "COUPLED" is not said, which is required when the jet does the landing via a Mode 1. There are a number of steps to get a Mode 1 going, so it's unlikely that was just omitted randomly.

amongst heavy loud shatter at 8:11 you hear incoming 'call the ball' which in the landing procedure is - way - later then any 'auto' 'coupled' or whatever, there is no 'auto' or 'coupled' to be heard

HOWEVER, if there are quotes and actual discussions that Fravor says he did a Mode 1, then you win. I can't and won't argue that.

again: the film crew wrote " .. Fravor gets that cigar with the Admiral, claiming he landed on autopilot .. "

edit: I am not saying you're wrong about the producers and those conversations with the Admiral. I am not familiar with them. I am just discussing this from the ACLS perspective, which is what I thought this thread was about. I have no problem with being wrong if those behind the scenes things do completely confirm it, and I don't deny your honesty about it.

your

" .. h. Sex would get more respect for doing a manual landing (using autothrottles), rather than having the computer do it (a coupled autoland, aka a Mode 1) .. "

 

Perhaps Fravor would receive more respect, but that is equally junior pilot awe of brashness, taunting a reckless immature mindset in horrible weather and 40 million USD machinery to say the least, then again that is for instance a known by me many a KLM pilot's mindset, and the known mindset of countless other pilots who are flying in other peoples airplanes these days many starting on minimum wage.

 

Where, mind you, Favor came in last as F18 tanker and fuel is not unlimited.

As I said, as skipper on his last recovery taking the seat from a junior female flyer, Fravor took quite a bit of responsibility and flying his dual seater conform NATOPS procedure, forfeiting a cowboy mentality amongst many - younger no doubt - pilots, would gain him plenty of respect from superiors far above his squadrons pay grade, and McDonnell Douglas to boot, who will have showered his actions with champagne,

 

which must have helped making him a commander and be let to address his Nimitz UFO encounter on public civilian platforms.

 

Frankly you cannot have any idea about the ACLS limits, neither that of autothrottle in abysmal weather for that matter.

Edited May 17, 2020 by majapahit

[G B]

not substantiated, no civi knows the limits of ACLS

not substantiated, civil KLM pilots hand fly heavy weather in, for 'exercise', then again just as many airliners don't allow their pilots to do that. At all.

amongst heavy loud shatter at 8:11 you hear incoming 'call the ball' which in the landing procedure is - way - later then any 'auto' 'coupled' or whatever, there is no 'auto' or 'coupled' to be heard

again: the film crew wrote " .. Fravor gets that cigar with the Admiral, claiming he landed on autopilot .. "

your

" .. h. Sex would get more respect for doing a manual landing (using autothrottles), rather than having the computer do it (a coupled autoland, aka a Mode 1) .. "

 

Perhaps Fravor would receive more respect, but that is equally junior pilot awe of brashness, taunting a reckless immature mindset in horrible weather and 40 million USD machinery to say the least, then again that is for instance a known by me many a KLM pilot's mindset, and the known mindset of countless other pilots who are flying in other peoples airplanes these days many starting on minimum wage.

 

Where, mind you, Favor came in last as F18 tanker and fuel is not unlimited.

As I said, as skipper on his last recovery taking the seat from a junior female flyer, Fravor took quite a bit of responsibility and flying his dual seater conform NATOPS procedure, forfeiting a cowboy mentality amongst many - younger no doubt - pilots, would gain him plenty of respect from superiors far above his squadrons pay grade, and McDonnell Douglas to boot, who will have showered his actions with champagne,

 

which must have helped making him a commander and be let to address his Nimitz UFO encounter on public civilian platforms.

 

Frankly you cannot have any idea about the ACLS limits, neither that of autothrottle in abysmal weather for that matter.

 

Why wouldn’t I know how the ACLS works? Why wouldn’t I know its limits? Why wouldn’t I know the culture of Naval Aviators?

Edited May 17, 2020 by G B

[Swift.]

majapahit, Would it be correct to say that you don't know who (or rather what) G B is?

[Lex Talionis]

G-reat B-alls

G-reen B-ananas

G-astric B-ypass

G-rizzly B- ear

[G B]

G-reat B-alls

G-reen B-ananas

G-astric B-ypass

G-rizzly B- ear

 

The first and last.

[Lex Talionis]

Bears

Beets

B-attlestar G-alactica

[Swift.]

Hi all,

 

Any news on the ACLS functionality for the hornet?

 

Now that we are getting the SC, it would be awesome and fitting to get the ACLS working.

So it goes with A/P coupling, link 4 page and new hud symbology.

All infos are in NATOPS so it should be rather easy to model...

 

I know the f18 road map is saying it's coming but when... Dunno.

 

BR

 

I shall be the one to violently steer this thread back on course:

ACLS should be coming eventually as you have guessed, if I were to say when I would say it will probably be soon after SC as hornet begins to be wrapped up. So hope for it within a few months but be prepared to wait longer as with all things ED.

[majapahit]

Why wouldn’t I know how the ACLS works? Why wouldn’t I know its limits? Why wouldn’t I know the culture of Naval Aviators?

Ah well, so were you in that pilot room? What about there is no 'auto' call after 'ball'?

Edit: reviewing the room footage one more time, actually when half of the room is amazed at the way the camera shows the incoming movement 'woe, that is rock steady' 'how is that possible', that is ACLS calculating and predicting deck behaviour and throttle with it. I'd say.

Edited May 17, 2020 by majapahit

[G B]

Ah well, so were you in that pilot room? What about there is no 'auto' call after 'ball'?

 

Was 100% definitely NOT in that ready room, or anywhere near that ship, at that time.

 

Does that disqualify me from knowing the limits of ACLS and how it works? Or Autothrottles? Because you did claim that specifically.

 

Edit: I also may know a thing or about the comm around the ship, including “auto” and “coupled.”

Edited May 17, 2020 by G B

[majapahit]

Was 100% definitely NOT in that ready room, or anywhere near that ship, at that time.

 

Does that disqualify me from knowing the limits of ACLS and how it works? Or Autothrottles? Because you did claim that specifically.

 

Edit: I also may know a thing or about the comm around the ship, including “auto” and “coupled.”

That's deflecting, in debating that's not allowed. No straw man, just the facts and the footage. It does not matter if you are a pilot whether Frazor did what on footage with a soundtrack and a time code and the production team present writing down their observations. Does it now. I'm a lawyer.

[majapahit]

McDonnell Douglas had already been absorbed by Boeing by this time and its highly doubtful anyone there heard about this or cared.

everyone anywhere near navy will have seen this PBS, it's rather famous

Oh and his callsign was “sexual” not “sex”.

'sex'

" .. That night, after hours of bolters, wave-offs followed by white-knuckle landings, there is one last pilot airborne, Dave “Sex” Fravor, Skipper of the Black Aces .. "

[majapahit]

And I’m telling you that 1 Boeing execs don’t care and 2 they ****ed it up.

Super Hornet gets great reviews. Even Trump knew that. Germany won't be buying F35 it seems, they'll buy Super Hornet - and invest in a new europe fighter - .

[Lex Talionis]

I'm a lawyer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

not substantiated, no actual lawyer thinks their argument is so weak as to require the need in announcing their credentials.

[Swift.]

So what have we learnt:

 

-'Auto' call was made, indicating an autothrottle landing. NOT a 'coupled' landing

-The deck was pitching too much for ACLS to work

-Fravor reports landing on (quote) 'autopilot'

 

So Mr Laywer[citation needed], do you have any actual evidence to support your claim?

[majapahit]

So what have we learnt:

 

-'Auto' call was made, indicating an autothrottle landing. NOT a 'coupled' landing

-The deck was pitching too much for ACLS to work

-Fravor reports landing on (quote) 'autopilot'

 

So Mr Laywer[citation needed], do you have any actual evidence to support your claim?

Nope call not made, you're not GB by the way.

You're an RL ACLS bad weather pilot? Same DCS virtual squad perhaps?

Edited May 17, 2020 by majapahit

[G B]

That's deflecting, in debating that's not allowed. No straw man, just the facts and the footage. It does not matter if you are a pilot whether Frazor did what on footage with a soundtrack and a time code and the production team present writing down their observations. Does it now. I'm a lawyer.

 

Ok lawyer, take this to court.

 

-I know about ACLS and the boat. Call me to the stand as your expert witness.

-You are confusing what the production crew means by the word “auto”. It does not mean what you think it means.

-No deflection was made by me. Nor a straw man. Just the facts (ACLS limits, radio calls, zero notoriety in the community for that pass being a Mode 1). Those can be your exhibits A, B, C.

-Objection, speculation and leading the witness on your part.

 

Verdict: you don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

Adjourned.

[majapahit]

Ok lawyer, take this to court.

 

-I know about ACLS and the boat. Call me to the stand as your expert witness.

-You are confusing what the production crew means by the word “auto”. It does not mean what you think it means.

-No deflection was made by me. Nor a straw man. Just the facts (ACLS limits, radio calls, zero notoriety in the community for that pass being a Mode 1). Those can be your exhibits A, B, C.

-Objection, speculation and leading the witness on your part.

 

Verdict: you don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

Adjourned.

Jesus, how old are you guys.

Production team write down is quoted 'autopilot' was said to the admiral.

There is no 'auto' at your 8:20 min PBS link. There is 'ball' at 8:11.

Anyone who can hear 'auto' at 8min20 I send him a bagel. Pffff