RedTiger Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 Joy! The internet just gave birth to another CH vs. Cougar thread! :doh: @PoleCat The problem is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to separate the facts from the BS. There was a point in time when I really wanted a Cougar. I could not justify paying the $200 to $250 price tag for something that so many people (and not just CH owners. I've seen negative comments and reviews from people who bought a Cougar as their first HOTAS) have reviewed as being shoddy and not worth the money unless you're willing to mod it or be prepared to replace the pots. $200 is a hard pill to swallow when a great deal of people have nothing nice to say other than "it looks cool" or "it feels nice" or "its metal" about the product you're going to buy. Furthermore, you've got CH which has a COMPANY BACKED community complete with forums, Saitek for the moment has official company forums vs. the Cougar which doesn't seem to have -any- manufacturer support. It seems similar to the state of Falcon 4.0 for many years, actually; a devoted community of enthusiasts propping up and supporting a product that is essentially dead. I've learned the hard way over the years to stay the hell away from product lines that are dead or dying. I'm sure that stock Cougars are fine, but a company-backed community and a 2 year RMA are impressive if you're going to buy a product sight unseen. It ain't like buying a car or an electric guitar. I can't take it for a test drive or plug it in at the shop and try out "Stairway to Heaven" :D. @x52 pro users: Beware! I bought a x52 pro shortly after it came out. It worked well for about a year and then went haywire. Stick started to spike violently and the whole thing turned into a flashing Christmas tree. Register for the Saitek forums and see for yourself. Just read thread after of people complaining about the same things and the Saitek support guy saying "Its a faulty stick, I suggest you exchange it for another one". Many of the problems the regular x52 were also present in the pro. They are picky when it comes to your USB port settings and windows power management settings. I set my ports so that Windows would not power them down if they were not in use and I still had problems.
PoleCat Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 The Cougar costs less then the CH. It is far better stock then indicatd here by virtually all the negative posts. Only if unpacking and setting up 10 or 15 of them myself has any bearing on the discussion in respect to experience. And further I can make a run over to the CH hangar and find as many complaints and problems with CH gear as with the Cougar. In fact this has was done some time ago at CW. If Cougar owners wanted to pound on the CH for this or that it would not be too difficult to do I think. So your arguements hold no weight with me. The Cougar is by no means perfect, nor is the CH. But the Cougar is at least 90% more reliable then what I am reading here in these negative posts. I have never had an issue getting an occasional part under warranty and the support at CW just like at the CH hangar is second to none. In my expereience with many of them there is no finer HOTAS in existence today then the Cougar. Out http://www.104thphoenix.com/
Pilotasso Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 I have had my X52 in second hand for 2 years now. Its showing signs of age but still working good. The only thing that doesnt work well anymore is the twist rudder, wich i replaced for a dedicated CH pedals set. If I had to change I would go for CH, I have tryied it and the only defects are ergonomic in nature. It feels rock solid otherwise. .
PoleCat Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 Joy! The internet just gave birth to another CH vs. Cougar thread! :doh: @PoleCat The problem is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to separate the facts from the BS. There was a point in time when I really wanted a Cougar. I could not justify paying the $200 to $250 price tag for something that so many people (and not just CH owners. I've seen negative comments and reviews from people who bought a Cougar as their first HOTAS) have reviewed as being shoddy and not worth the money unless you're willing to mod it or be prepared to replace the pots. $200 is a hard pill to swallow when a great deal of people have nothing nice to say other than "it looks cool" or "it feels nice" or "its metal" about the product you're going to buy. I can't tell you how many things are innaccurate about this statement. Price is wrong, Cougar costs less then the CH. I have also seen many negative comments on the CH. Should I reference those here as eveidence against buying a CH? As a CH owners total experience in a nutshell? I think not. That is what I call selective evidence. I have had to replace only one pot in 5 years which I had no trouble getting in a timely fasion from TM support. I have unpacked and setup 10-15 stock Cougars and I have seen no such issues. They do not fall aprt, they are not poorly constructed and they are just fine stock. Further I do not have any of these people complaining about their Stock Cougars even years later. The Cougar is alot more then it feels good, It is every bit as functional as the CH. Lots of advanced programming etc. Always the rant is the same. Sure the Cougar does look good, feel good and its all metal and highly progammable (All but the last of which the CH is not)but it sucks compared to the CH. That is the exageration right there. Pure BS. Do yourself a favor if you are thinking about the Cougar. Go and try both the CH and the Cougar. Do not take the negative posts from some CH users as representative of the Cougar experience. Nothing could be further from the average Cougar users experience. Chances are very good you would never look back and never be sorry you bought one. Out http://www.104thphoenix.com/
RedTiger Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 The Cougar costs less then the CH. It is far better stock then indicatd here by virtually all the negative posts. Only if unpacking and setting up 10 or 15 of them myself has any bearing on the discussion in respect to experience. And further I can make a run over to the CH hangar and find as many complaints and problems with CH gear as with the Cougar. In fact this has was done some time ago at CW. If Cougar owners wanted to pound on the CH for this or that it would not be too difficult to do I think. So your arguements hold no weight with me. The Cougar is by no means perfect, nor is the CH. But the Cougar is at least 90% more reliable then what I am reading here in these negative posts. I have never had an issue getting an occasional part under warranty and the support at CW just like at the CH hangar is second to none. In my expereience with many of them there is no finer HOTAS in existence today then the Cougar. Out What I should have done is just dispense with all the BS about quality. I'm most certainly NOT trying to give anyone the impression that Cougars suck (with Saitek, yes, I'm trying to do some convincing but only because I have first hand expirience). My arguments don't hold any weight with you? I'm not trying to convince you or anyone of anything about the quality of Cougars. I can also relate to you feeling passionate about this, PoleCat. You feel that Cougars get a bad rap and since you like them, you want to try to dispel the myth. Dispel away, I say! :) What I should just say is this; my comfort level with buying something that expensive and not having committed manufacturer support will not allow me to buy a Cougar. I've done my research and I'm aware of the problems people encounter with CH products. However, if my stuff goes wacky, I can take it up directly with the manufacturer and I have a 2 year RMA to fall back on as long as I don't crack the stuff open and try to fix it myself. Does the manufacturer of the Cougar offer this? I wouldn't know if they did since they don't seem to communicate this. CH has an entire forum and much of it is devoted to communication between the company and its customers. Cougar owners have Cougar World. Forgive me for wanting to deal directly with the manufacturer rather than a forum of do-it-yourselfers and enthusiasts. I'm not comfortable nor do I have the time to fix things like this myself.
RedTiger Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 Do yourself a favor if you are thinking about the Cougar. Go and try both the CH and the Cougar. Do not take the negative posts from some CH users as representative of the Cougar experience. Nothing could be further from the norm. Out Try a Cougar? How? Read my first thread. There aren't any HOTAS dealerships where I can go take a test drive. Seriously though, I can't just "try one out" unless I want to buy it and then return it. I don't want to do that. Price is wrong, Cougar costs less then the CH Price is wrong? Price isn't constant, market economy and all. ;) http://computers.pricegrabber.com/joysticks-gamepads/m/5582218/fd=1 The much cited provantage has a Cougar for nearly the same price as a Fighterstick and Pro Throttle. $197.59 vs. $187.20 http://www.provantage.com/thrustmaster-2960534~7THRU00U.htm http://www.provantage.com/ch~110CHPU.htm So I could just as easily get on some high-horse about people making CH out to be more expensive than it really is. If you want a step up from the x52, a Cougar, x52 pro AND CH stuff is all going to be ~$200. Truth is, I don't care enough to make a big deal about it. If you don't know to shop around and I do, oh well, your loss. ;) Go and try both the CH and the Cougar. Do not take the negative posts from some CH users as representative of the Cougar experience. CH users? How about people who bought it and have never used a CH product in their life? Please, give me a little more credit. I did my homework. Generally speaking, I don't take a crap unless I have all the facts. Unlike some, I am NOT an enthusiast when it comes to joysticks. Just give me something with a proven track record and a good warranty. The fact that CH makes controllers for commercial applications like construction and medical equipment was a plus too. :)
The_GOZR Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 PoleCat I tried ALLLLLLL! I'm extremly picky when it come to this... Once again i like very much the CouGar finish and the throttle is great when you set it up like you want.. but the stick feeling Beark!!
Kuky Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 Cougar is the ultimate HOTAS... if you want perfection you will get one and mod it... period PC specs: Windows 11 Home | Asus TUF Gaming B850-Plus WiFi | AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D + LC 360 AIO | MSI RTX 5090 LC 360 AIO | 55" Samsung Odyssey Gen 2 | 64GB PC5-48000 DDR5 | 1TB M2 SSD for OS | 2TB M2 SSD for DCS | NZXT C1000 Gold ATX 3.1 1000W | TM Cougar Throttle, Floor Mounted MongoosT-50 Grip on TM Cougar board, MFG Crosswind, Track IR
G3 Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 don't take this too seriously :) forget the ch and the cougar, treat yourself to hell with sfs. get your hands on a sfs combat stick and split throttle. with this hotas you won't find a single fanboy defending the product as they were an absolute piece of crap, even before leaving the factory. the sfs f-15 replica controls are well modeled but thats about it, they are only game-port connection, so you are bound to have issues getting it set up in modern systems, not to mention the axis pots will spike horribly from new. on a positive note the internal key binding via keyboard pass thru is a brilliant function and my favorite part of the hole hotas. and i also intend to mod my split throttle to usb, retaining the key binding ability, the throttle is actually pretty good but same goes for its pots/axis in the fact they are horrible an not at all precise. some buttons are intermittent and feel cheap, and the stick grip is made for giants hands no humans. precision was not a word the manufacturers had in the vocabulary, it is impossible to fly with any accuracy on your own so imagine how impressed you squad mates will be when you smash into the formation time and time again. if you want headaches, misery and lots of flack from others get yourself an sfs hotas and regret it for the rest of you sim life, which you will probably soon discontinue thanks to the hell this product will put you thru. in all fairness i do like the split throttle. point is: people will tell you this and that and you can take it or leave it. often with bias opinions due to the fact they are owners of one brand and heard that someone else once had a problem with another brand. i think cougars look/feel great, and from the sounds of it once the nxt is fitted they are lifted to a new level of accuracy. haven't owned one but have looked right into it. as an owner of a CH combat stick, i can say it is a quality item.:thumbup: but i cannot comment personally on the cougar. so, clear as mud, don't go cheap, good luck. there's always the logitech attack3, what a joke :megalol: pilotasso: i love the fact your twist rudder died, how much happier are you with the pedals, heaps i bet.
Recommended Posts