Pikey Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 [subject to change as developments continue in the SC EA period.] This has been asked for a couple of times in Discord. The madness that is Airboss + Super Carrier comms is quite intense for those not experienced with either. “We like some Moose Airboss features and we have DCS: SuperCarrier but I don’t want both ATC, especially at the same time” What are the overlapping features of both? How can I integrate Moose Airboss with Supercarrier? What changes will there be to Airboss now SC is released? What are the overlapping ATC and handling features of both? Airboss only: https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.Airboss.html Equal Tarawa + Stennis handling, saving grades to disk, ‘Skipper’, Carrier information, deck to wind, recovery windows, integration with tankers/CSAR helo, Marshall Holding and queueing for player and AI. Skill levels/verbosity, Case3 offsets, policing patterns and feedback on Case1 from either Initials or Marshall, relies on no API - must use unit positions and Menu, downloadable voice packs and choices for LSO and Marshall. SC only: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/supercarrier/ Superior auto contextual menu handling, quality voice overs, deck crew auto configuration, integrated (case switching is automatic, rather than script initiated, Menu is direct DCS API). Keybindings, especially for Ball call!! (Note that ATC is only a minor part of the product) Overlap: LSO callouts in the Groove, Landing Grade, some of the Case3 dialogue, initiation ATC calls from Menu. There may be other items. How can I integrate Moose Airboss with Supercarrier? They don’t integrate. Neither has awareness of each other, there are no API’s in the SSE currently for any of the DCS ATC functions. To get missing features of one or other you must have both. Additionally, you cannot switch off the ATC for SC and it is required for initiation of deck crew configuration. What you need to know is how you can use Airboss in a minimal way. Common Tips: Remove the LSO sound pack for Airboss. You will lose the “Paddles contact” and go around handling, but otherwise not have duplicate calls. Create a sunrise checker for your Recovery Windows to automate the change from a case 1 to a case 3 zero offset radial depending on the daylight. (I started some code for this, and I left it half finished so cannot provide a working sample yet) Choose to handle AI or not, depending if you want to use detailed Marshalling calls and stacking that works reasonably well. https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.Airboss.html##(AIRBOSS).SetHandleAIOFF By default AI will be handled and put into relevant holding patterns by Airboss. There is now a fight here since AI in DCS changed. Finally, most of the simplistic ways of using the extra features of Airboss and ignoring most of its menu, is to use the menu item in Airboss of “Request Emergency landing”. This allows the grading to be saved to disk without creating any new event Handlers. There is an EH out there you can try to work through. Note, Airboss and SC give reasonably fair gradings, in as far as perfect scores have been tested on both and are in agreement. Marshalling The Airboss Marshal exists in a fuller format and is not implemented for Case1 in SC comms, as of now. Case3 is not enforced by SC. Because Marshall comms may be attractive, it adds to the difficulty of finding a process that uses both SC and Airboss. Case I Marshall Choice 1: Ignoring Airboss Case 1 Marshalling can be fully automated by using squadron designated altitudes in the stack and ignoring Airboss, but if using Airboss you may come into conflict with squadron designated altitude blocks, because Airboss stacks up from 2000 feet regardless, including AI. So, avoid AI and you are good to avoid any of the Airboss interactions. Choice 2: Working with Airboss Use Airboss and be at your designated stack no later than 10nm (see you). Remain in your designated stack until Airboss gives you Charlie deck and you can break the deck. Call DCS ATC Inbound and see you immediately after, when commencing and call Airboss emergency landing in the break. Case III Marshall Choice 1: Use Airboss for the Marshall handling and ignore SC’s call of your assigned stack Airboss will handle a good Marshall and track both AI and players. With a 0 degree offset, both Airboss and the DCS ATC will end up being different. At this time I favour Airboss for the timing aspect and it will also warn you if you wander off. You will need to ensure you handle AI which is on by default. Your process would be to follow Airboss Marshall and commence calls and then call Commence for DCS ATC and emergency landing for Airboss inside 5nm. Choice 2: Ignore Airboss Marshalling You should probably set AI handling off in this scenario and let DCS stack the planes how it wants. Warning, Case3 is chaos in either case due to the changes of giving AI some more realistic Case3 approaches. Especially with different airframe types and approach speeds. At least it was last time I checked. The process here would be to call inbound to both SC ATC and Airboss, then follow DCS instructions and menu right up to less than 5nm, at which time call for an emergency landing from Airboss. Landing Case1 Utilize Moose F10 “Request emergency landings” whilst in the CCA. You can even call them on the boat (thanks to TonyG for this tip). The next position expected is the groove or somewhere to the stern of the boat, for Airboss, thus you can skip the majority of Case1 menu “faff”. You still need to tell DCS you are inbound. The process would be: Call emergency landing <5nm, call DCS “inbound”, Report see you at 10 and your ball call on a keybind. Case3 Currently you MUST align with DCS Case3 for a zero offset case3 recovery. You should set this up with your recovery windows. Until offsets are implemented with SC ATC, this has to be the way. Implement recovery windows using daylight checks to automate the swap. These functions are available in MOOSE COORDINATE class and UTILS. Due to more comms overlap in Case3, recommend using an Airboss ‘Emergency call’ to land, inside 5nm from the stern of the boat. What changes will there be to Airboss now SC is released? Airboss was day one release ready for compatibility and week 1 tuned for deck adjustments when Super Carrier was released, so that it worked, in principal. However, SC massively overlaps Airboss features and a previous feature hole in the ATC communications and toolsets around the carrier. Airboss was in existence for some years now as a mature module for MOOSE. The development time of Airboss was exceptionally long and has benefitted from enormous amounts of player feedback over its lifetime. It is not a simple “script”. DCS Supercarrier is still in its early EA lifecycle, with partial feature delivery and some items like AI handling changing on a weekly basis. This is expected, if other DCS EA periods can be used as guidance, for quite some time. Not soon. It would be madness to develop on such a fluid base. Changes to work around DCS’ implementation of Super Carrier ATC and AI handling would be worthless until the final feature set is established. Even then, it may be that the features begin to so occlude each other that Airboss may be completely sunsetted and only ever be relevant for Stennis and Tarawa. We simply do not know how or when SC will reach that stage. There have been numerous suggestions around breaking out some Airboss features like Skipper, recovery and wind handling and intercepting the DCS landing grade. Whilst this seems like a great idea, we miss that only the full Airboss provides any Marshalling instructions to players, which is a large and very unique ATC implementation. In comparison to Super Carrier, which fakes the frequency changes and does not guide the player or deal with any case1 stack or police the Case3 stack or do offsets at all. Therefore, we can say the time is not right to do any “Airboss lite”, at least in the current SC implementation. My experience and advice isn't final on this. If you have sugegstions, experiences, processes that work for you, please input to this thread and if it looks good, i can update the wall of text. ___________________________________________________________________________ SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EntropySG Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Amazing post Pikes, thanks!! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyG Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Thanks Pikes, for everything you and Franky have done to get AB integrated with SC. I'm still lost on how we can get the correct wires to work in MP, I've moved the numbers in MOOSE.lua but it's still the same issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant977 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) Is there any update on any of this? Edited June 7, 2022 by grant977 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealius Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Is there a way to enable the recovery windows and disable airboss-player interaction entirely? As in, keep the turn-into-wind, rescue helo, and AI traffic spawns but exclusively use SC comms instead of messing with the "emergency landing" stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomCat Posted July 11, 2022 Share Posted July 11, 2022 (edited) How do I go from the .csv spreadsheet file(Trapsheet) to Graph form? The MOOSE github page does not specify how to do it (https://flightcontrol-master.github.io/MOOSE_DOCS_DEVELOP/Documentation/Ops.Airboss.html) Edited July 11, 2022 by PhantomCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberNV Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 I've noticed in scripts/speech folder there is common and common_events lua's. If I ommited out the lines for supercarrier responses would that stop the double call backs for Supercarrier airboss? Would it be possible? Maybe ED could release a feature to turn of SC calls so we could just use airboss? I miss my paddles call... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceyJones Posted December 4, 2023 Share Posted December 4, 2023 Hello @Pikey im currently learning the f/a-18 case 1 recovery and on our server runs the moose airboss script. its great, and im making progress. nevertheless i noticed, that the script ALWAYS counts wire +1. Means, when i catch the 3rd wire, it thinks, i got the 4th. when i get the 4th, it counts "wire 99" Is it an error in the script? Or did we implement it wrong? Is it a known issue? I cant find anything about this. Thanks for advice! Icey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikey Posted December 4, 2023 Author Share Posted December 4, 2023 Not seen that addition thing. Wires are problematic anyway, we've tried everything, animation states, guessing distance... Check with @funkyfranky though or join Moose DIscord to see if he's around. ___________________________________________________________________________ SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceyJones Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 (edited) Am 4.12.2023 um 22:14 schrieb Pikey: Not seen that addition thing. Wires are problematic anyway, we've tried everything, animation states, guessing distance... Check with @funkyfranky though or join Moose DIscord to see if he's around. you have an invite for that discord for me? cant find an active one on the other hand, as its really consistent and ALWAYS counts wire+1 maybe its possible to just subtract one wire in the count? would be great! Edited December 6, 2023 by IceyJones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceyJones Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 just wanted to leave a headsup here too, as the problem was solved. one needs to ad a correction factor in one line myairboss:SetMPWireCorrection(12) with the correction of "12" it counts the right wire now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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