Multiplayer much needed improvements

[Bozon]

It is clear that DCS was not originally made with walk-on multiplayer in mind. However, there is a growing demand for servers for walk-on multiplayer game. There are a few features that are really needed in order to make DCS into a good multiplayer experience (aside from a private server with 2 buddies).

 

 

1. Communication is really bad - voice. DCS needs built-in voice coms that are simple and allow communication between random allied players. Sorry, but SRS does not cut it. This is too important to leave it to mods.

 

 

 

2. Communication is really bad - chat. The current chat window is terrible. It mixes a ton of random irrelevant (to me) server messages with the few player messages. Separate the players chat from the server messages.

 

 

3. "Who the hell is this guy?" - I had an ally join formation with me. I have no idea who he was. Cumbersome text messages in the form of "who is the p47 flying formation with another 47 near XXX?" sometimes do the trick, but that is a lot of typing to do while flying an un-trimmed warbird (trim does not work with MS-FFB, a different issue). We need a way to ID a friendly (by name) at short ranges. Maybe you get the icon if you point at him with the cursor and he is close enough? Maybe if he is at the center of view and close enough?

 

 

4. Better clipboard maps - we need to be able to place waypoint markers on the clipboard before takeoff. We need a more detailed map in the clipboard. We need to be able to zoom in on the clipboard map in order to use it for navigation. In the warbirds I go F10 to do visual navigtion, but then I have no visuals while doing so... It is messy. Maybe plan the mission on F10 before takeoff and have it transferred to the clipboard like in offline missions?

 

 

5. Online mission debrief - Who did I shoot down? Did he even go down? Was it a friendly I mis-IDed and shot at? what was that vehicle I strafed?... I have no idea :(

After mission end (dead, bailed, or landed) we should get this information.

 

 

6. Gun convergence - OK this is not specific for online game, but it is perhaps more important there. P47 guns are set wwaayy out there, far beyond A2A shooting range. This is nice for strafing but terrible in A2A. P47 guns are so wide apart that I hit both wing tips of 109s when shooting at dogfight ranges. Allow the ground crew to set them.

 

 

7. Repeated loadout - on the server, remember the last loaded I asked from the ground crew (for this plane model), and next spawn with this plane, set me up in this configuration as default. Asking for rearming, refueling, and skin every time can get annoying.

 

 

I am sure some or all of these have been wished before.

[Worrazen]

DCS voice will improve over time, that was already confirmed, it'll just take time, so no worry there.

 

The whole radio-signal-distance-voice-simulation will be a bigger deal later on and it should be done good.

 

A radio transmission can affect the whole result of a mission, accurate simulation of the signal propagation, interference, and the translation to the subsequent audio quality loss or interruption is not a small deal, propagation and simulation may be right, but if that's not reflected with the voice properly then the simulation doesn't help.

 

Currently there is already 3D based voice signal simulation, the increase in distance will lower the volume ... I haven't done good enough testing and comparison with real life to gauge how good it is but I would assume in the end there are a bunch of other things that mess up the audio not just volume.

 

This would then be tied with the AI ATCs and AI units, perhaps even ATC-to-ATC transmission (emergency handling, diversion due to airfield full, or even relaying info, SAR assistance), and with good radio signal simulation this will offer lots of tricks and twists ... but the big one is, integration of this with the real-mode F10 AWACS view (fog of war), so you would have the F10 AWACS be a composite of multiple sources, AWACS radar pings ofcourse, pings from your ground units ... if they actually feed into your HQ and see this is where signal stuff comes in, you shouldn't see those pings on the F10 View if your AI friendly ground unit was out of range from the mobile HQ or nobody was in range to relay the datalink (the units that have that capability), this kind of simulation, or even deeper, I don't know if they though of this at all, but this is a bigger deal that plays directly into the arms of what the new "RTS dynamic campaign" needs is that kind of an overview but not a cheat-map like F10 usually is without fog of war, as I deal with basic radio-amateur equipment myself and a bit of an enthusiast on FlightRadar and ADSBExchange I would love this kind of stuff in DCS oh my god!; Continuing, then sources from your friendly air bases providing secondary radar (transponders) .... visual sources, etc, the problem is this can get very complicated, especially with visual or some airplane doing some IR on it's own which has no official datalink with the base (AFAIK), to what length can DCS go to kinda simulate what could and would happen in real life when they're talking over the radio a lot to relay approx position of a target of interest, so how in DCS would the code/system work to display that ping/icon on the F10 view approximately in some location but so indicated with a special icon that perhaps fades slowly away just like the real radar pings, perhaps with some kind of a special-colored ring to indicate "approx somewhere in this area", without your AI friendly units talking over the radio to your AI HQ units to provide the approx location, that would be a ton of chatter but except wait, perhaps that is okay some of it, it just would be for cosmetic effect, but the underlying tech would work independently, it wouldn't rely on speech recognition for sure, but the AI would be simulated his eyes looking and have this InternalDatalink ... however this is question whether this would actually happen in real life, would the military heads/commanders really see things like that, well, we may simulate what's in their head and is simply not put onto a map so putting it onto a map in DCS shouldn't be that unrealistic right, because the awareness in the whole military of where the target is or it might be doesn't change, it's somewhere there, so it's not wrong, right ?!

 

 

This is actually part of simulating the battlefiled commader, the whole military's awareness put into a map, but I think they do have such maps or visualizations in some fashion, we just never see them in public. The ones we do are static and limited in scope, filtered, meant for later reporting/debriefing.

 

I would even rename it because it isn't just AWACS source, F10 Battlefield View or something, but that's just my opinion. I already wrote about this, or I have notes saved for a dedicated thread about this, will do it later, all of this is still a long way away.

 

Anyway this was more of a rushy post, I should have do this one more clearly sometime.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Worrazen

[ilikepie]

it would be great if the typed text wasn't blue too. something more readable?

[QuiGon]

3. "Who the hell is this guy?" - I had an ally join formation with me. I have no idea who he was. Cumbersome text messages in the form of "who is the p47 flying formation with another 47 near XXX?" sometimes do the trick, but that is a lot of typing to do while flying an un-trimmed warbird (trim does not work with MS-FFB, a different issue). We need a way to ID a friendly (by name) at short ranges. Maybe you get the icon if you point at him with the cursor and he is close enough? Maybe if he is at the center of view and close enough?

I really don't like this idea. It would be fine if you have labels activated (don't they already show player names?), but otherwise I don't want some name tags popping up in the sim world...

 

It happens in real life as well, that a pilot that gets seperated from his wingmen sometimes rejoins on another flight, thinking it is his flight, while actually it is a totally different flight. It's up to the pilots to communicate to sort these things out!

 

So I would ask you to state your wishes as your wishes and not pretend it is something we all want to have, as this is not true.

[Bozon]

I really don't like this idea. It would be fine if you have labels activated (don't they already show player names?), but otherwise I don't want some name tags popping up in the sim world...

 

It happens in real life as well, that a pilot that gets seperated from his wingmen sometimes rejoins on another flight, thinking it is his flight, while actually it is a totally different flight. It's up to the pilots to communicate to sort these things out!

 

So I would ask you to state your wishes as your wishes and not pretend it is something we all want to have, as this is not true.

 

I didn’t claim to represent the opinion of anyone but myself.

 

A lot of crap happens in real life, but that does not mean it should be carried over into the game/sim. If you want that kind of realism you will be flying boring eventless patrols and get into a handful of engagements over a year of playing. You’ll have a lot of aborted sorties due to malfunctions and be sent to attack targets that are no where to be found because intel was inaccurate. Not much fun.

 

Online multiplayer is different than offline Single player. Single player you can go max realism. Multiplayer requires some compromises. Currently playing on the multiplayer servers is not much different than playing alone, except that the “AI” planes behave strangely. There is very little to no interaction with other human players, your side or opposing. What is the point then? To replace the AI units with HI units? That’s it?

 

As for ID of pilots, we are at a severe disadvantage vs. real life. We have such terrible vision that we cannot identify markings on other planes unless they are flying welded wing formation with us. We don’t even have the information of which player flies which plane ID letters, or which liveries they use, which you often do in real life (if they are from your squadron / group).

 

The DCS multiplayer experience is very lonely unless you log in with a friend.

[PL_Harpoon]

Points 1, 2, 4, 5 - totally with you.

 

 

Point 3 - ok, but only with labels on.

 

 

Point 6 - Would be great to have (perhaps available on the rearm/refuel page) but to be honest I already got used to fixed convergence (I mainly fly the Spitfire).

 

 

 

Point 7 - I don't remember how it works right now, but I think that you can select your own presets on the rearm window. If so, then I'd rather choose them each time I start than automatically start with my previous loadout.

 

If not then I'd like the option to select my own presets (that could include liveries).

[QuiGon]

I didn’t claim to represent the opinion of anyone but myself.

Then why do you say "we want" instead of "I want" all the time? :huh:

 

A lot of crap happens in real life, but that does not mean it should be carried over into the game/sim. If you want that kind of realism you will be flying boring eventless patrols and get into a handful of engagements over a year of playing. You’ll have a lot of aborted sorties due to malfunctions and be sent to attack targets that are no where to be found because intel was inaccurate. Not much fun.

 

Online multiplayer is different than offline Single player. Single player you can go max realism. Multiplayer requires some compromises. Currently playing on the multiplayer servers is not much different than playing alone, except that the “AI” planes behave strangely. There is very little to no interaction with other human players, your side or opposing. What is the point then? To replace the AI units with HI units? That’s it?

 

As for ID of pilots, we are at a severe disadvantage vs. real life. We have such terrible vision that we cannot identify markings on other planes unless they are flying welded wing formation with us. We don’t even have the information of which player flies which plane ID letters, or which liveries they use, which you often do in real life (if they are from your squadron / group).

 

The DCS multiplayer experience is very lonely unless you log in with a friend.

Seems like you're playing on the wrong servers then...

 

There are servers out there that do encourage teamwork, with common SRS frequencies to speak with one another and coordinate things. Take a look at the GAW or BlueFlag servers for example. And then there are of course organized squadrons, which take teamwork to a much higher level.

 

So saying multiplayer is like singleplayer, just with oddly behaving "AI" might be true if you just play on rather silly air quake servers, but then it's your fault for doing so.

 

I definitely don't want some dumb looking name tags appearing on other aircraft. There are more than enough ways to sort these things out and communicate with another, especially with SRS and the upcoming integreated radio voice comms. If you want name tags, then enable labels.

[Emmy]

A lot of crap happens in real life, but that does not mean it should be carried over into the game/sim. If you want that kind of realism you will be flying boring eventless patrols and get into a handful of engagements over a year of playing. You’ll have a lot of aborted sorties due to malfunctions and be sent to attack targets that are no where to be found because intel was inaccurate. Not much fun.

 

All of the above has been known to happen in missions we fly.

 

Red Balls requiring you to jump in a different jet, 3 hour Recon flights that come home empty handed, Strike flights that bring their ordinance home, Leads or Wingmen RTB-ing earlier than planned because their wing or lead disco’d, had to eject or got shot down, etc.

 

But I vehemently disagree with your last sentence because it’s not the Sim that makes it fun, it’s the people you fly with who make it fun.

 

Don’t raise your sim. Raise the quality of the people with whom you fly!

[Bozon]

Then why do you say "we want" instead of "I want" all the time? :huh:

.

When I use “we” it relates to the problem, not the solution, and the statement is true for many players not just me. “We” cannot ID the pilot of a random nearby friendly plane is true for everyone. This is not my opinion.

[Bozon]

Don’t raise your sim. Raise the quality of the people with whom you fly!

I tried to emphasize that I was talking about multiplayer servers with random players, not an organized session with friends. I have no control on the quality of random players that log into the servers.