SD-10

[Chiron]

yup there is a change that i wanna ask about

 

Lifetime now 100sec so the question is if its true why it go from 100 to 80 to 100 again ?????????

 

and CCM its 0.08 now so ......... can someone pls explain if its higher what will happen and if its lower what will happen

 

i dont know what else changed TBH that is what i noticed

 

Edit: and FI_search back to 1.05 it was 1.05 and go to 0.175 and then back again to 1.05

 

thx in advance

Edited June 17, 2020 by Chiron

[AeriaGloria]

Lower is more resistance for CCM. AMRAAM got increased resistance so it only makes sense.

 

It’s possible the 80 seconds was a mistake

 

You sure about Fi search? J20Stronk said it became .175. Becuase I always thought search was gimbal range, and excort was beam width and that that was the one changed during the last round of SD-10 changes from 1.05 to .175, before that patch both search and excort were 1.05.

 

Just updated gonna go check for myself:)

 

I think the supersonic a skew co efficient may be related to rocket nozzle

[Chiron]

Lower is more resistance for CCM. AMRAAM got increased resistance so it only makes sense.

 

It’s possible the 80 seconds was a mistake

 

You sure about Fi search? J20Stronk said it became .175. Becuase I always thought search was gimbal range, and excort was beam width and that that was the one changed during the last round of SD-10 changes from 1.05 to .175, before that patch both search and excort were 1.05.

 

Just updated gonna go check for myself:)

 

I think the supersonic a skew co efficient may be related to rocket nozzle

 

i dont now where is R-77 lua file can u check CCM for R-77 or just tell me the location ?

[AeriaGloria]

R-77 has always been .14 like SD-10 before. Unless they changed it also, I wouldn’t expect it to get it’s changes all at once with CFD re work eventually

[J20Stronk]

According to DIS, the real SD-10 has a 100 second battery, then ED changed it to 80 to match the 120C. That change was unwarranted since ED does not have the documentation that proved it was 80, Deka does.

 

Mostl likely the CCM change was an adjustment made to better reflect the new guidance laws. It should be much harder to notch and spoof with chaff than before, and it should no longer do the "notch wobble".

[Chiron]

According to DIS, the real SD-10 has a 100 second battery, then ED changed it to 80 to match the 120C. That change was unwarranted since ED does not have the documentation that proved it was 80, Deka does.

 

Mostl likely the CCM change was an adjustment made to better reflect the new guidance laws. It should be much harder to notch and spoof with chaff than before, and it should no longer do the "notch wobble".

 

i didn't try it after today patch but yesterday was easy to spoof even if the notch is not perfect

 

another Question if SD-10 between B and C in performance why CCM in aim-120b is 0.06 and 120c is 0.04 it would be between them i think not 0.08

Edited June 17, 2020 by Chiron

[L0op8ack]

1. 100s is what we saw, but many people claim 'battary can not better than AIM-120'.

So we test what will happen if battary lifetime 80s, it seems nonsense missile lost electric while it still have many M numbers.

I do not think this behavior can pass any national test.

2. CCM adjustment according to AIM-120 value, the test show it do few help when been chaffed, they use different FM anyway.

3. adjust supersonic a skew to decrease trans-sonic Cx a bit, suggest from ED.

4. FI_search is the seeker cone, we adjust it for avoid strange behavior when missile is close to target with low M numbers,

it will constantly switch state between target locked(lead turn) and target lost(turn to last known target position).

this adjustment do no help.

 

 

I think these adjustments are released by mistake, especially FI_search, it's not the real number, for internal test only.

Edited June 18, 2020 by L0op8ack

[Chiron]

1. 100s is what we saw, but many people claim 'battary can not better than AIM-120'.

So we test what will happen if battary lifetime 80s, it seems nonsense missile lost electric while it still have many M numbers.

I do not think this behavior can pass any national test.

2. CCM adjustment according to AIM-120 value, the test show it do few help when been chaffed, they use different FM anyway.

3. adjust supersonic a skew to decrease trans-sonic Cx a bit, suggest from ED.

4. FI_search is the seeker cone, we adjust it for avoid strange behavior when missile is close to target with low M numbers,

it will constantly switch state between target locked(lead turn) and target lost(turn to last known target position).

this adjustment do no help.

 

 

I think these adjustments are released by mistake, especially FI_search, it's not the real number, for internal test only.

 

well thx for respond

[Max1mus]

1. 100s is what we saw, but many people claim 'battary can not better than AIM-120'.

So we test what will happen if battary lifetime 80s, it seems nonsense missile lost electric while it still have many M numbers.

 

ED says that the AIM-120 encounters serious INS drift and that the limitation there is not the available energy.

[Chiron]

ED says that the AIM-120 encounters serious INS drift and that the limitation there is not the available energy.

 

( Wrong again as usual ) he said many people not (((((((( ED ))))))))) wear Glasses my friend

[L0op8ack]

ED says that the AIM-120 encounters serious INS drift and that the limitation there is not the available energy.

 

 

Some old INS will drift 3nm~5nm after 1 hour flight, even such INSs are good enough for ARH missiles,

because AA missile need only 2-5 minutes flight time,

 

ARH seeker can get target with 100-200m INS drift error in end game(target range 10 to 15km).

[AeriaGloria]

Yes thanks for response. Happy to have battery at 100 seconds, will ignore Fi search for now. Glad to have CCM adjustment and I can’t wait to see how it does at transonic speeds now:) I guess the best way to test that would be at sea level when Mach number is lowest

[FoxAlfa]

Some old INS will drift 3nm~5nm after 1 hour flight, even such INSs are good enough for ARH missiles,

because AA missile need only 2-5 minutes flight time,

 

ARH seeker can get target with 100-200m INS drift error in end game(target range 10 to 15km).

 

The drift is function of movement and G loads, not just time. INS Drift is quite different for straight subsonic flying airliner crosschecking 3 ins systems and a supersonic missile chasing the manuvering target. I am not sure INS can be disregarded that easily.

Edited June 18, 2020 by FoxAlfa

[Max1mus]

Then how the F is this missile marketed to have a maximum range of 70km, when its more like 120+km in DCS. Is the drag at high altitudes too low? Something isnt right.

[L0op8ack]

Then how the F is this missile marketed to have a maximum range of 70km, when its more like 120+km in DCS. Is the drag at high altitudes too low? Something isnt right.

 

 

the answer: national standard

we do not use 20,000m @2M vs 20,000m @2M.

[AeriaGloria]

I mean it did exceed 70km occasionally in recent test. And if you look at Chizh CFD it does have not enough drag at supersonic speeds so it will overpeform slightly at high altitude, it’s twice as close to real drag then it was on release.

 

That being said if you do see a 120km shot you should upload a track, as that is very extreme

 

As loopback states, the 70km range is from a co altitude launch at 10km and 1.2 Mach, so someone at high altitude and high Mach can go way beyond that

Edited June 18, 2020 by AeriaGloria

[AeriaGloria]

Here is interview with chief designer about launch conditions

[Chiron]

Then how the F is this missile marketed to have a maximum range of 70km, when its more like 120+km in DCS. Is the drag at high altitudes too low? Something isnt right.

 

oh u again sorry i didn't say hi ( every time i see u i will welcome u dont worry )

 

u said 120+km ...... if u get shot from that distance from any missile then u are amateur ( yea u are ) and u are talking about SD-10 well i would be happy if SD-10 can fly all this time .... anyway u are bluffing as usual without any trk file so talking to u some sort of fun to me i am enjoying myself

 

even Aim-54 will fail in this distance :megalol::megalol::megalol::megalol:

 

Come on Bro pls invent something not silly pls if u want to attack SD-10 or JF-17 be creative

 

and put in mind max range always for non maneuver target at same alt same speed so again ( if u get hit from this distance then u are noob ) oh God i am enjoying myself :megalol::megalol:

Edited June 18, 2020 by Chiron

[Max1mus]

the answer: national standard

we do not use 20,000m @2M vs 20,000m @2M.

 

 

12.000 meters Mach 1.1 vs a 10.000 meters target below m1. 120km, SD-10 arrives at more speed than even the MK60 phoenix . If the battery life was even higher, the missile would kill things 150-200km out.

 

This is nowhere near 20.000 meters, yet its also nowhere near 70km. What is going on there? Unless the Chinese national standard is 6000 vs 6000 meters, your missile is clearly overperforming.

 

server-20200618-044132.trk

Edited June 18, 2020 by Max1mus

[Blinky.ben]

12.000 meters Mach 1.1 vs a 10.000 meters target below m1. 120km, SD-10 arrives at more speed than even the MK60 phoenix . If the battery life was even higher, the missile would kill things 150-200km out.

 

This is nowhere near 20.000 meters, yet its also nowhere near 70km. What is going on there? Unless the Chinese national standard is 6000 vs 6000 meters, your missile is clearly overperforming.

 

[ATTACH]240224[/ATTACH]

 

I fired at a target at 70nm, 60nm, 50nm, 40nm with Aim-120c and SD-10 The first Aim-120 arrives at the same point as the aircraft at Mach 1.9 the second arrived at Mach 2.01, exact same test with SD-10 is 2.01 at 60nm cause I can’t lock past 63nm. Even more weird the 4th Aim-120c fires at 40nm still had M1.22 even after it did Almost 180degree turn in the opposite direction to chase the wreckage falling to earth. Strange your not high lighting the aim-120 over performing even with its iron man abilities. You being Biased has lost your credibility on this thread can’t you see that?

Edited June 18, 2020 by Blinky.ben

[L0op8ack]

12.000 meters Mach 1.1 vs a 10.000 meters target below m1. 120km, SD-10 arrives at more speed than even the MK60 phoenix . If the battery life was even higher, the missile would kill things 150-200km out.

 

This is nowhere near 20.000 meters, yet its also nowhere near 70km. What is going on there? Unless the Chinese national standard is 6000 vs 6000 meters, your missile is clearly overperforming.

 

[ATTACH]240224[/ATTACH]

 

 

AIM-54 lost 1M (4.6M to 3.6M) when switch from mid-course to end-game, a very hard turn, is it correct?

[Chiron]

12.000 meters Mach 1.1 vs a 10.000 meters target below m1. 120km, SD-10 arrives at more speed than even the MK60 phoenix . If the battery life was even higher, the missile would kill things 150-200km out.

 

This is nowhere near 20.000 meters, yet its also nowhere near 70km. What is going on there? Unless the Chinese national standard is 6000 vs 6000 meters, your missile is clearly overperforming.

 

[ATTACH]240224[/ATTACH]

 

now i am started to respect u after this trk

 

1- i dont think JF-17 can fly 1.1 M at angel 41 ( am gonna try it for sure )

2 - hot target is coming actually is not a 65nm and BTW GS already present Aim-120c before the last update can perform a kill from 60nm

educate yourself my friend

and BTW it reach the target with greater speed than Aim-54 :smilewink:

and again that is even before the Boost that ED gave to Aim-120 family

3- less maneuver from the defender means death cuz the missile is not correcting his path and no energy lose here specially in this very high alt

4- SD-10 lofted more than Aim-54 and that is mean he will regain more speed in the fall process

5- all shoots from very high alt will not force the missile to bleed more energy like angel 10 or below or angel 20 cuz Air is more thickness in low but high is another different story

6- this type of shoot can do with many missile specially when it come with very good lofting profile

 

PS : in rl it can happen and this shoot can be executed if the defender didn't see the missile coming

 

Edit :i dont think F-15 radar can Guide Aim-54 cuz from what i see in the Tacview Aim-54 wasn't locking the target until 21nm separation watch the missile behavior

 

the reason i didn't respect u before cuz i started to hate people that only talk without any proof but since u started to do that all my respect for u and my apologize also for being jerk with u

 

u can start train for this sniping shoots cuz its very good but not working all the time 3 element for success ( high speed + high angel + Lofting )

 

best regard

Edited June 18, 2020 by Chiron

[nighthawk2174]

AIM-54 lost 1M (4.6M to 3.6M) when switch from mid-course to end-game, a very hard turn, is it correct?

 

No the current AIM-54 doesn't have the new lofting code so it'll drop a good 500ish kts when coming out of the loft.

[LJQCN101]

I'm not from the missile team but this is my 2 cents assuming the SD-10 quote and Russian diagrams from the internet are all correct:

 

(Correction: Vcarrier max at 10km seems to be 500m/s)

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by LJQCN101

[Chiron]

No the current AIM-54 doesn't have the new lofting code so it'll drop a good 500ish kts when coming out of the loft.

 

so that behavior not lose lock and reacquire again ?