Waypoints are at Ground Level only?

[YoYo]

Still learning the Harrier (it's time to get him out of the hangar :D ) but .... when I created mission in Mission Editor always I see waypoints on the ground level (and only, even if I set up 11.000 ft / 3.400m in ME). On ODU/UFC I see WP Elevation for example 3500ft only (ground level here like on the picture). Tested on Nevada map. Any idea? Bug in AV-8B and DCS Mission Editor or I miss something? See the ball:

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by YoYo

[YoYo]

Hmmm... so? Any idea about this WP ball, why is on the ground? Checked on PG map, Caucasus, the same....

 

 

Just put Harrier in the air in ME, set up waypoint in the air and check it. Thx.

Edited July 8, 2020 by YoYo

[proszekOMO]

Waypoints in AV-8B does not support elevation parameter

[Victor3]

Hey YoYo, not sure if the ME should transfer the waypoint elevation or not, but why would you want to have the waypoint to be at an altitude above ground level anyways. It's going to be a big problem if you decide to designate that waypoint as a target point. Also if you really do want it to be up in the air you can modify the waypoint on the EHSD using the ODU/UFC.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Victor3

[Frederf]

Operationally many airplanes Mirage 2000, F-16, F-18 have elevation parameter for waypoints and not flight plan altitude. Using sensors airplanes are able to calibrate altitude during flyover by comparing measurement with radar altimeter.

 

For example if you plan to fly at waypoint 3 at 20,000' over ground 1,234' elevation you would program the airplane that waypoint 3 is elevation 1,234' and not 20,000'. There of course is nothing preventing someone from programming the airplane that the ground is at 20,000' at waypoint 3's location but perhaps that would have some adverse effects on the altitude calibration routine.

 

DCS's problem is that the altitude value in the mission editor is the flight plan altitude, where you and AI are expected to fly. How should the airplane waypoint elevation programming be handled? Should it repeat the flight plan altitude despite that being not how it was done in practice? Should it ignore the altitude and force equal to terrain elevation at that location? Should there be manually editable similar to radio presets?

[Ramsay]

Waypoints in AV-8B does not support elevation parameter

 

AFAIK that is only true for the DCS Harrier, IRL the target(s) elevation i.e. for CCIP bombing, is derived from the selected waypoint for the target area and is entered by the pilot.

 

DMT, TPOD, Radar Alt, etc. calculate/measure the Harrier's height/slant range above the target correcting for barometric errors, etc. - they don't "magically" know the ground elevation without that data first being entered in manually or loaded from the data transfer cartridge.

 

The first iterations of the Harrier in DCS supported waypoints at varying altitudes i.e. just like the A-10C, etc.

 

When Razbam implemented the overfly update / target of opportunity marking, they forced all waypoints imported from the ME to be at ground level.

 

AFAIK target waypoints, overfly update points, airfields, TACAN beacon data, etc. would be set at ground elevation, while enroute navigation waypoint altitudes are set as desired.

 

It seems to me Razbam may be enforcing a particular doctrine (for programming convenience), rather than modelling a RL limitation but I don't know for sure.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Ramsay

[YoYo]

Ok, thx guys for reply.

However it seems to me like an issue. In RL most of modern combat planes can use marking of WP in mid air, in 3D space (even CAP planes) so hard to belive to see WP here only on the ground level in NAV mode (in A/G mode logically it's ok). It looks like a limitation of Razbam's model only for me. Strange (see

). After few tests I see that I cant edit created WP by UFC/ODU - elevation option (it doesnt work simply), only Offset Waypoint but looks like here is a bug with conversion (which I noticed also), examples:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=263098&highlight=waypoint

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=247940&highlight=waypoint

Edited July 9, 2020 by YoYo