PKT machine gun in the crew compartment

[Avimimus]

On 12/4/2023 at 9:26 PM, ACS_Dev said:

Bump, our Kord is 10 years newer than the Afghan war and thus anachronistic for the conflict. Having a PKT would be a very welcome option, also in the case of the MI-8.

It'd be great if they offered an Mi-24V module with the release of the Afghanistan map (or at least offered an earlier Mi-24P). I think there is enough to motivate a paid upgrade given the pair of PKT gunners, the MDB-4 FAB-100 combination, UPK-23-250 (export variants), and more S-5 rocket warhead variations... it could be quite attractive. But I've probably said that before

[AeriaGloria]

1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

It'd be great if they offered an Mi-24V module with the release of the Afghanistan map (or at least offered an earlier Mi-24P). I think there is enough to motivate a paid upgrade given the pair of PKT gunners, the MDB-4 FAB-100 combination, UPK-23-250 (export variants), and more S-5 rocket warhead variations... it could be quite attractive. But I've probably said that before

They could also add SPO-15…….Give me thermobaric S-8. Single ATGM loaded racks. 
 

Maybe a few years after official release…… 

[ACS_Dev]

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

It'd be great if they offered an Mi-24V module with the release of the Afghanistan map (or at least offered an earlier Mi-24P). I think there is enough to motivate a paid upgrade given the pair of PKT gunners, the MDB-4 FAB-100 combination, UPK-23-250 (export variants), and more S-5 rocket warhead variations... it could be quite attractive. But I've probably said that before

What would be gained from having the MI-24V? The gun jumps out to me as the main feature but its reputation seems to have been lacking in practice;

Source: "Mil Mi-24 Hind Attack Helicopter" by Yefim Gordon, Dmitriy Komissarov, page 58.

My opinion is that they should stick with the MI-24P and give us the bomb racks, PKT and S-5 variants as part of the core helicopter. The PKT is the most important feature to me besides the single-mounted ATGM option.

Regarding paid upgrades the MI-8 is the way to go. It badly needs it. Unfortunately there are few things they could give us on the MI-8 that would justify a paid upgrade other than fuel tanks, a new model, or features that make it anachronistic for Afghanistan so I don't see them putting in the effort, especially with how low its relative market share surely is.

[Avimimus]

15 hours ago, ACS_Dev said:

What would be gained from having the MI-24V? The gun jumps out to me as the main feature but its reputation seems to have been lacking in practice;

 

 

Yes, I know, but, well, two things:

1) A gun which is prone to failures is dramatic (and fun in a sim, if not in real life)

2) When flying as the gunner and looking through the site... I've often had a truck lined up in the scope... and being able to squeeze a trigger... well, I think it would be very useful for taking out two or three soft-skinned vehicles in a single pass. Even if the gun jammed shortly after, it provides a close range flexible firepower that could be very useful.

The number of times I've wished I had a Yak-b with just 100 or 200 rounds of ammunition is considerable... so I think it has value.

[ACS_Dev]

https://discord.com/channels/542985647502393346/543014378643914752/1196060649525092462
from the main ED discord, directly responding to a discussion chain on this topic.

This is all very unfortunate. In addition to Georgia, ED is releasing Iraq and Afghanistan in the coming years, two hallmark maps for Mi-24 conflicts.

At the same time, the Kord pushes our Hind to ~1998 if we are being generous and the gunner's EMR pattern pushes it 10 years further (also being generous) to 2008. A cursory search of pictures of the Georgian war shows few, if any instances of soldiers wearing the pattern. I am curious as to why they chose the Kord instead of working with the PKT or NSV.

[Northstar98]

Yep, certainly is.

Unfortunately, and as much as I'd like it to change change, historical coherency is not something DCS does well at all. It seems very little (or indeed any at all) consideration is given towards it. 

On 1/18/2024 at 4:47 PM, ACS_Dev said:

I am curious as to why they chose the Kord instead of working with the PKT or NSV.

My guess is that it was chosen simply because it's more modern if there was any reason at all.

There's a few other examples like this, though as they're not relevant to the Hind this probably isn't the best place for them.

Edited January 20, 2024 by Northstar98
Clarity

[Avimimus]

On 1/18/2024 at 4:47 PM, ACS_Dev said:

I am curious as to why they chose the Kord instead of working with the PKT or NSV.

I suspect it was the SMEs: They talked to actual Mi-24 crews who said that the P variant with the Kord was much preferrable from the operator's perspective.

It definitely leaves open the option for them to sell an earlier period Mi-24 later.

[ACS_Dev]

40 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

I suspect it was the SMEs: They talked to actual Mi-24 crews who said that the P variant with the Kord was much preferrable from the operator's perspective.

It definitely leaves open the option for them to sell an earlier period Mi-24 later.

Do you have a source for this?

[Avimimus]

5 hours ago, ACS_Dev said:

Do you have a source for this?

Well, the 'I suspect' should make anyone reading what I wrote suspicious of it.

I know that the developers stated at one point that the SMEs had recommended the Mi-24P. It might have been on the Russian part of the forum - that statement is definitely somewhere on these forums if you look for it. The fact about the Kord is supposition though. They did say that it was chosen because it was more effective, but I don't know if the SMEs recommended it.

[Stratos]

Bump, please ED give us the proper era MG's gunners.

[Stratos]

Polish Hind in Iraq with two PKM MG's

 

[Stratos]

PKM on both sides and internal hardpoints useable clearly seen in this polish Hind in Afghanistan video.

 

[Raffi75]

3 hours ago, Stratos said:

PKM on both sides and internal hardpoints useable clearly seen in this polish Hind in Afghanistan video.

 

I don't know if you noticed, but Bignavy wrote that they have no plans to change the gunner. I doubt they want to add another option (PK/PKM), since they can't even release an official, full manual so far. 

[Stratos]

2 hours ago, Raffi75 said:

I don't know if you noticed, but Bignavy wrote that they have no plans to change the gunner. I doubt they want to add another option (PK/PKM), since they can't even release an official, full manual so far. 

They made a new 3d model for the F-5 and sold them, why I cannot request for a new feature? Maybe in the future they will give it a chance!

[Raffi75]

4 hours ago, Stratos said:

They made a new 3d model for the F-5 and sold them, why I cannot request for a new feature? Maybe in the future they will give it a chance!

You can always ask, but what will come of it? I wonder why ED didn't immediately choose version V, which is iconic.

[Avimimus]

3 hours ago, Raffi75 said:

You can always ask, but what will come of it? I wonder why ED didn't immediately choose version V, which is iconic.

We already know - they talked to Mi-24 pilots who said the P was a much better choice. The fixed gun does more damage and is more reliable.

Of course, that doesn't mean that a lot of us wouldn't pay for an Mi-24V as well (perhaps an export example with UPK-23-250 to help make up for the reduced firepower, and maybe the 10xFAB-10 loadout and/or PKT)? Anyway, I think I already mentioned it but there have been a number of cases where I was attacking trucks or infantry and really wished I could use a turret. I think there are some cases/contexts where the Yak-b is more useful (provided it doesn't jam)!

[AeriaGloria]

Yak-B is also much more shortly ranged, and has only about 6 seconds worth of ammo if they don’t model the jamming 

As for PKT and inboard weapons, there is difference between someone putting a smaller 7.62mm gun in the window mount and putting a Kord with 1m long barrel out the door. There is no reason that seeing Hinds with window PKTs and inboard ordnance means that the same ordnance is possible with a Kord sitting in the door. 

[Raffi75]

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

We already know - they talked to Mi-24 pilots who said the P was a much better choice. The fixed gun does more damage and is more reliable.

Of course, that doesn't mean that a lot of us wouldn't pay for an Mi-24V as well (perhaps an export example with UPK-23-250 to help make up for the reduced firepower, and maybe the 10xFAB-10 loadout and/or PKT)? Anyway, I think I already mentioned it but there have been a number of cases where I was attacking trucks or infantry and really wished I could use a turret. I think there are some cases/contexts where the Yak-b is more useful (provided it doesn't jam)!

I guess it was about firepower, but... The station with Jack-B gives more possibilities. You can fly freely. Combined with UPK-23 + UB-32, destruction and conflagration. More fun. 

[hannibal]

im just grateful i can be a human controlled kord machine gunner in DCS!

 

[Stratos]

A Mi-24V would be amazing, but in the meantime (if ever) I will apreciatte my requests being consideredby ED.

@AeriaGloriaYeah, I understand that the massive Kord does not allow for internal hardpoint use.

[Stratos]

Wondering if two of the Mi-8 gunners and two PKM would fit on the cargo compartment...

[AeriaGloria]

4 hours ago, Stratos said:

Wondering if two of the Mi-8 gunners and two PKM would fit on the cargo compartment...

There is not space for 2x Kord

[Stratos]

7 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

There is not space for 2x Kord

I know, not two Kords, but two PKM reusing the Mi-8 gunner.

[AeriaGloria]

13 hours ago, Stratos said:

I know, not two Kords, but two PKM reusing the Mi-8 gunner.

Ah! Ideally we should be able to have a total of 6 with a Kord gunner. Even having 4 with cargo doors closed would be epic. Wonder how it feel inside hanging onto your gun attached to the gun mounts while you maneuver around! 

[Raffi75]

Either one kord or two PKs. There's no other way. I'm not even mentioning the personal weapons of the landing party. That's also a variant. During the maneuvers, no one held the weapon, no possibility of aiming.