ME historic filter incorrect even for core modules?

[Madfish]

Hi,

 

so apparently the ME is incorrect even for many core modules. Could we please get a sanity check (maybe community can do it together) so the values could be adjusted properly?

 

Also is there an easy to read source file so we don't have to dig around and change dates in the ME?

 

 

An obvious example is the JF-17 for Pakistan. It's not available in 2005 and not even in 2020. If you take the filter out it's available - it's then also available for the USA which to my knowledge is also incorrect.

 

Other examples which might need confirmation are:

M-2000C (in ME 84 - expected 83)

F/A-18C Lot 20 (in ME 98 - expected 89)

F-16CM bl. 50 (in ME 91 - expected 97)

AV-8B (in ME: 97 - expected: 87)

F-5E-3 (in ME: still in service 2020 - expected: not in service anymore (only F-5F/F-5N))

 

A good example is the A-10C which is 05 and I also expected an 05.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Madfish
layout

[AeriaGloria]

It’s a new feature and I’m sure this is exactly one reason it is here as late as it is.

 

 

For F-18, the lot 20 we have was produced in 1998 IIRC.

 

For F-16 it’s probably a similar story, using the production year of the late model we have. Block 50 deliveries I don’t think even started until 91

 

AV-8B harrier I’m sure is also a similar story. Things were made until 2003, and I think brand new NAs were still being delivered to USMC by the timeframe listed in ME

 

As for F-5E3, it depends on the country selected I’m sure, it’s gotta be in service somewhere:)

[Rudel_chw]

...

As for F-5E3, it depends on the country selected I’m sure, it’s gotta be in service somewhere:)

 

:) In Chile, after 44 years in service, 70% of the fleet (F-5E & F-5F) is still in service:

 

https://www.defensa.com/chile/f-5-activo-fundamental-fuerza-aerea-chile-tras-44-anos-servicio

 

For the F-5E the database has the following service years for different countries:

 

addYearsPlane("F-5E", "USA", 1972, 9999)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Austria", 2005, 2009)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Bahrain", 1985, 9999)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Brazil", 1975, 9999)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Chile", 1976, 9999)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Ethiopia", 1975, 2000)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Honduras", 1986, 9999)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Indonesia", 1982, 2005)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Iran", 1974, 9999)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Jordan", 1975, 2014)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Kenya", 1978, 9999)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "South Korea", 1974, 9999)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Malaysia", 1975, 2015)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Mexico", 1982, 2017)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Morocco", 1981, 9999)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Philippines", 1976, 2005)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Saudi Arabia", 1974, 9999)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Singapore", 1976, 2015)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Vietnam", 1975, 9999)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Sudan", 1982, 2015)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Switzerland", 1978, 9999)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Taiwan", 1973, 9999)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Thailand", 1977, 9999)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Tunisia", 1984, 9999)
addYearsPlane("F-5E", "Yemen", 1979, 9999)

Edited August 24, 2020 by Rudel_chw

[Madfish]

Hey gents,

 

@AeriaGloria

Not sure what you meant by it's a reason why it's late - could you clarify?

 

And yes, to help fix potential bugs is exactly why I asked if there is an easily readable source file to support the effort without having to spend days to research this via the editor by placing the objects for testing.

 

And sorry I should've clarified better. ME stands for mission editor.

 

I reworded the post - hope it's more clear this way:

 

Obvious example: JF-17 for Pakistan. It's not available for Pakistan in the ME in 2005 (expected) and not even in 2020.

If you take the filter out it's available - but it's then also available for the USA which to my knowledge is also incorrect but not related to this feature.

 

Other examples which might need confirmation are:

 

• M-2000C (in ME available from 84 for France - I expected from 83)
  
• F/A-18C Lot 20 (in ME available from 98 for USA - expected from 89)
  
• F-16CM bl. 50 (in ME available from 91 for USA - expected from 97)
  
• AV-8B (in ME available from 97 - I expected from 87)
  
• F-5E-3 (in ME still in service 2020 for USA - I expected not in service anymore in the USA (only F-5F/F-5N))
  I couldn't find any F-5E-3 in service in 2020.
  

@Rudel

As for the hornet you could be right as the hornet in DCS is almost the latest C built for the Navy.

However, shouldn't the filter represent the earliest that model was available? Also taking the unit out the latest it was found to still be in service for that country / coalition?

 

 

 

 

In general I tried to compare with the DCS encyclopedia - sadly it doesn't, with some exceptions, tell much about most of the air frames.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Madfish

[Rudel_chw]

@Rudel

However, shouldn't the filter represent the earliest that model was available? Also taking the unit out the latest it was found to still be in service for that country / coalition?

 

The Historic Filter is nothing more than a table, where for each DCS aircraft & service country combination, there is an entry with two numbers: the year the aircraft first entered service, and the last year the aircraft was in service with that country.

 

Currently, this table has entries for aircrafts, helicopters, ground vehicles and ships. It does not have entries for weapons, so you could, for example, place on the ME an F-18 for an historically correct date, but using missile versions that were not available yet.

 

The Table is loaded by the db_years.lua script, located at \Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Scripts\Database\

 

The table currently has no entries for the JF-17, that's why on the ME you can't place any JF-17 if you are with the Historic Filter enabled.

 

Here is a sample of its entries for the F-86:

 

addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "USA", 1952, 1971)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "USA", 1952, 1971)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Argentina", 1960, 1986)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Argentina", 1960, 1986)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Canada", 1953, 1971)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Canada", 1953, 1971)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Colombia", 1956, 1966)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Colombia", 1956, 1966)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Denmark", 1958, 1966)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Denmark", 1958, 1966)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Ethiopia", 1960, 1975)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Ethiopia", 1960, 1975)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Iran", 1961, 1970)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Iran", 1961, 1970)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Iraq", 1958, 1980)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Iraq", 1958, 1980)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Japan", 1955, 1982)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Japan", 1955, 1982)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Norway", 1957, 1967)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Norway", 1957, 1967)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Pakistan", 1954, 1980)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Pakistan", 1954, 1980)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Peru", 1955, 1980)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Peru", 1955, 1980)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Philippines", 1957, 1979)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Philippines", 1957, 1979)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Portugal", 1958, 1980)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Portugal", 1958, 1980)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Taiwan", 1954, 1982)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Taiwan", 1954, 1982)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Saudi Arabia", 1958, 1974)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Saudi Arabia", 1958, 1974)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "South Africa", 1953, 1954)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "South Africa", 1953, 1954)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "South Korea", 1955, 1990)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "South Korea", 1955, 1990)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Spain", 1955, 1972)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Spain", 1955, 1972)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Thailand", 1962, 1966)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Thailand", 1962, 1966)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Tunisia", 1969, 1978)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Tunisia", 1969, 1978)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Turkey", 1954, 1971)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Turkey", 1954, 1971)
addYearsPlane("F-86F Sabre", "Venezuela", 1955, 1971)
addYearsPlane("F-86F_MAC", "Venezuela", 1955, 1971)

 

We can see that the Table is already set up to include the MAC aircrafts, that are not yet released. For me personally, it is a pleasure to see that Peru and Argentina are mentioned, even tough they still have not been included as countries :thumbup: please ED, include them soon :)

 

Creating this Table must have been a big task for whoever at ED was tasked with it, as it is not easy to determine correct years for every country ... for example, the Tunisian Air Force received its F-86 on 1969 .. but it is not very well known which was the last year they were in service. So, we must think about that before criticizing some particular entries.

 

Best regards,

 

 

Eduardo

[AeriaGloria]

Hey gents,

 

@AeriaGloria

Not sure what you meant by it's a reason why it's late - could you clarify?

 

And yes, to help fix potential bugs is exactly why I asked if there is an easily readable source file to support the effort without having to spend days to research this via the editor by placing the objects for testing.

 

And sorry I should've clarified better. ME stands for mission editor.

 

I reworded the post - hope it's more clear this way:

 

Obvious example: JF-17 for Pakistan. It's not available for Pakistan in the ME in 2005 (expected) and not even in 2020.

If you take the filter out it's available - but it's then also available for the USA which to my knowledge is also incorrect but not related to this feature.

 

Other examples which might need confirmation are:

 

• M-2000C (in ME available from 84 for France - I expected from 83)
  
• F/A-18C Lot 20 (in ME available from 98 for USA - expected from 89)
  
• F-16CM bl. 50 (in ME available from 91 for USA - expected from 97)
  
• AV-8B (in ME available from 97 - I expected from 87)
  
• F-5E-3 (in ME still in service 2020 for USA - I expected not in service anymore in the USA (only F-5F/F-5N))
  I couldn't find any F-5E-3 in service in 2020.
  

@Rudel

As for the hornet you could be right as the hornet in DCS is almost the latest C built for the Navy.

However, shouldn't the filter represent the earliest that model was available? Also taking the unit out the latest it was found to still be in service for that country / coalition?

 

 

 

 

In general I tried to compare with the DCS encyclopedia - sadly it doesn't, with some exceptions, tell much about most of the air frames.

 

I was meaning this is a very recent feature, and I’m sure the bug reports help. But that F-18 is definitely the date it is because that’s the production year of the specific Bu No that they modeled

 

Same with the Harrier I’m sure

 

And to converse what Rudel said, service start dates can be really fuzzy. For like Mirage, it may have been flying in 83 but it’s very likely it wasn’t fully operational until 84, things like that

 

I guess it depends if Chile has e3 or not for F-5?

Edited August 26, 2020 by AeriaGloria

[Madfish]

On 8/26/2020 at 9:30 PM, Rudel_chw said:

The Table is loaded by the db_years.lua script, located at \Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Scripts\Database\

Can anyone else still find it? It seems to have disappeared completely on my client.
As in it's not inside that folder and even outside I can't find it.

[Rudel_chw]

12 minutes ago, Madfish said:

Can anyone else still find it? It seems to have disappeared completely on my client.
As in it's not inside that folder and even outside I can't find it.

Two years don’t pass in vain .. ED has encrypted a lot of it’s innards, to prevent users altering them. pity.