GGTharos Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 Were they more advanced, or was it just that they were using EO systems where the US preferred to use radar? 'Cause I know that the US was using EO-guided bombs before that even ... so I can't see how they could be all that far behind. I can see more advanced in applications, but not actual construction - however, as I have no proof, I concede the point :D 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
mvsgas Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 LOL. Why are all you guys arguing about real life missile performance? Any of you actually use a real A2A missile? It seem to me we are all arguing about our own opinions since we have no real data, just what we can find in the web, tv, videos or books. :D 1 To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
GGTharos Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 Perhaps you didn't read what was written above ... we do in fact have some real data. In a lot of cases it's incomplete, in some it is fairly accurate (At least for some aspects of the weapon) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Teknetinium Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 Im showing some real pilot talking and u see how much the missiles missed in that video, in lock on that would never happened and still u are talking how bad they are. I understand that they are not correct modeled but they are still way to good if u compere to different real life engagements. Hope u understand me now that Im not trying to say that lock on missiles are perfect :) 51st PVO Discord SATAC YouTube
mvsgas Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 Perhaps you didn't read what was written above ... we do in fact have some real data. In a lot of cases it's incomplete, in some it is fairly accurate (At least for some aspects of the weapon) Where you get man USAF, or the web? Just instigating man :megalol: To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..
RvEYoda Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 If you fire an AIM-120C from 10nm to a target at Falcon 4.0, %99 target will destroy. That's the AMRAAM. Not at all in the multiplayer games I have been in. The only difference is that you have to know how to defeat it. You won't just dodge it by accident ;) (see lockon). In our games we end up with around 30-40% kill ratio from these ranges, 7-9 nm. Some of the more experienced guys can dodge 2-3 missiles head on (!) starting 10-15 nm, ending up in sidewinder range around 5nm in front of you. Gotta be careful how to place the amraams, make them attack from different angles and timings to confuse the enemy. Within 6 nm the kill ratio extends to around 80% since the missile's energy mostly overpoweres the enemy, but there is still a chance of dodging, however this is somewhat difficult. Within 2-3 nm you can mostly make the missile seeker overG from too high flight speeds. Correctly fired "double slammers" from within 5 nm have almost 100% chance of hitting. Even if you break the first one (through combined chaff and high G maneuvers) you probably won't have enough time, energy or SA to dodge the second. but that was just an example. Ai mig29 or mig25 are also usually are able to outrun the amraam from 10nm and more, unless of course you launch from angels 40. Then that mig is just screwed :P. Oh btw for those that are interested, aim120 cruise speed is specified to "about mach 4" in Lockheed Martin's F-16 MLU handbook. This is in connection with description of aim120A. S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
GGTharos Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 You do know what real data means, right? ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Pilotasso Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 LOL. Why are all you guys arguing about real life missile performance? Any of you actually use a real A2A missile? It seem to me we are all arguing about our own opinions since we have no real data, just what we can find in the web, tv, videos or books. :D My brothers an F-16 Pilot. We often disccuss tactics missile and radar perfomance. Some of the stuff is already discussed here, while other things cannot be talked about. :) The other day I was shown some HUD tapes and then I took mine from the Israely raid on the reactor (concerning iron bomb drop procedures) he was mostly amazed on how Israelis did it... We had a very enlightening and amuzing conversation. .
Pilotasso Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 0.3 PK is what vietnam era missiles actual combat record shows. We have gone a long way from that my friend. What teknetinium video shows is Sparrow (probably even AIM-7F's) perfomance and AIM-9L seeker perfomance, both of wich only one generation ahead that of vietnam. I doesnt mention a single AMRAAM combat. .
Vekkinho Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 AIM-9's perfomance cahrts are declassified and verified LOMAC's reproduction to have been halved over the real thing. Oh yeah?! If that's true, what happens to "My Winder has a legs too short" story?! IIRC someoone cried it's too short in LO! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Pilotasso Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 Its confirmed they have cut legs in half. Its range is similar if still shorter to that of R-73. .
GGTharos Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 I think you misunderstood what Pilotasso said ... The charts actually show that LO's sidewinder is 500kts too slow and has half the range of the real AIM--9L. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
ED Team Groove Posted April 9, 2008 ED Team Posted April 9, 2008 Many F-14s was shot down by MiG-25s and Su-15s using R-40 and R-60M missiles over Sea of Okhotsk!Who do you think will believe you ? Dont misunderstand me but i need facts to believe this. 1 Our Forum Rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en
S77th-konkussion Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 Actual Vietnam's combat kill ratio in BVR engagements was 0,15 buddy! However my grandpa was Chief of Soviet PVO Forces on the Soviet Far East in early 1980s. He frequently told me that during many secret engagement with US fighters their Sidewinders performance was ridiculously poor. Many F-14s was shot down by MiG-25s and Su-15s using R-40 and R-60M missiles over Sea of Okhotsk! Of course I can't tell you more about this amazing but top secret facts. You surely understand that! :megalol: :megalol: :megalol: LMAO.. oh man.. Seriously bro- you watch too much TV or something. [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=43337&d=1287169113[/sIGPIC]
Pilotasso Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 Who do you think will believe you ? Dont misunderstand me but i need facts to believe this. He was joking...he basicaly said "if your brodther is a pilot my dad is santa claus". I leave him at that. .
ED Team Groove Posted April 9, 2008 ED Team Posted April 9, 2008 I missed that joke... Our Forum Rules: http://forums.eagle.ru/rules.php#en
Vekkinho Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 Yeah, I misunderstood You Pilot. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Vekkinho Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 The charts actually show that LO's sidewinder is 500kts too slow and has half the range of the real AIM--9L. Lima?! IIRC, Sidewinder 3D model in LOFC is a Mike! Edit: I just checked it out, it is a Lima. Damn, that's old as I am! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
GGTharos Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 ... You mean like publically available scientific research or HUD tapes? Documents aquired through FOIA? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
GGTharos Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 Correct. So would you think the Mike has a slight incremental increase in performance over the Lima? ;) The Lima was the airframe that was tested though, we don't have data for the Mike. I'd imagine they're 'close enough' however. Lima?! IIRC, Sidewinder 3D model in LOFC is a Mike! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Pilotasso Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 they got same booster, different seeker. And were talking about kinetics. .
Pilotasso Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 I think everybody who also believes in stories carried on here by other guys and their "trusted sources"! :megalol: ok so in your logic (oh and I bet you dont fly F-15 too) in ignorance of all facts we can only assume LOMAC is just right for you... is that what your saying? .
RvEYoda Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 sounds like someone is enjoying flying hovercraft very much.. S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'
S77th-konkussion Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 Oh you mean lines and Xfiles fantasies like this one? However my grandpa was Chief of Soviet PVO Forces on the Soviet Far East in early 1980s. He frequently told me that during many secret engagement with US fighters their Sidewinders performance was ridiculously poor. Many F-14s was shot down by MiG-25s and Su-15s using R-40 and R-60M missiles over Sea of Okhotsk! Of course I can't tell you more about this amazing but top secret facts. You surely understand that! :megalol: :megalol: :megalol: [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=43337&d=1287169113[/sIGPIC]
Vekkinho Posted April 9, 2008 Posted April 9, 2008 He was joking...he basicaly said "if your brodther is a pilot my dad is santa claus". I leave him at that. ...And I was kidnaped by UFO...in fact...I made love to it! :thumbup: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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