New HMD Datalink Inherited old MSI Bug

[hein22]

Hi, while testing the new HMD datalink symbols (awesome by the way), I realized that the very old MSI bug was transferred to this system as well, which is a very annoying thing to have in combat and most probably get you killed as the system is actually confusing you.

 

Old bug https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/english/digital-combat-simulator/dcs-f-a-18c-hornet/270017-reported-ltws-bricks?t=267824

 

The bug in words: If your radar isn't painting the target then the HMD will show you the bottom portion correctly. But when your own radar is painting the target you only see your current HAFU status losing the Donor's. This is a LTWS + MSI bug that's been here for ages now. Up until now this bug only messed up the LTWS feature, but now it is also messing up the HMD datalink.

 

Track attached.

 

I hope ED can finally resolve this issue before throwing more features into the Hornet.

 

 

Thanks for your time.

msi bug transferred to hmd.trk

[dorianR666]

i confirm

 

MSI has been broken for many months now.

[AvroLanc]

I'm not actually sure this is a bug as far as the JHMCS is concerned.

 

Remember, the symbols we're are seeing in the HMD are MIDS Contacts by definition. Not radar contacts. Since all the HAFU's shown in the HMD are datalink contacts you only need either a top half or a bottom half.

 

Bottom Half - MIDs contact not detected by own radar.

Top Half - MIDs contact also detected by own radar.

 

 

I would agree that a potential bug is on the radar page. When an AWACS is not available, or SURV deselected, the bottom half of a datalink contact is never shown on the RDR page. Even with SIL selected.

 

[hein22]

I'm not actually sure this is a bug as far as the JHMCS is concerned.

 

Remember, the symbols we're are seeing in the HMD are MIDS Contacts by definition. Not radar contacts. Since all the HAFU's shown in the HMD are datalink contacts you only need either a top half or a bottom half.

 

Bottom Half - MIDs contact not detected by own radar.

Top Half - MIDs contact also detected by own radar.

 

 

I would agree that a potential bug is on the radar page. When an AWACS is not available, or SURV deselected, the bottom half of a datalink contact is never shown on the RDR page. Even with SIL selected.

 

If what you say correct then we'd have a major bug in the implementation.

 

Did you see the track?

 

If you paint a contact you LOSE the datalink HAFU. So if datalink hafus are the hmd thing, this would mean a big mistake. I think it is like I said, with the inheritance of the bug.

[AvroLanc]

 

 

If you paint a contact you LOSE the datalink HAFU. So if datalink hafus are the hmd thing, this would mean a big mistake. I think it is like I said, with the inheritance of the bug.

 

Yep, watched the track. It's the same behavior as I was describing.

 

My opinion is that you should LOSE the bottom HAFU when your radar paints the target (in the JHMCS display). The HAFUs on the HMD are MIDS INFORMATION. They can't be directly compared with the radar HAFU's, since the HMD doesn't display raw radar hits. As such, they always represent datalink contacts. A top and bottom half together are superfluous. There's no need to show a diamond like shape.

 

Bottom Half - MIDs contact not detected by own radar.

Top Half - MIDs contact also detected by own radar.

 

Again, there's a bug with Donor only (non-AWACS) HAFU's not displaying bottom half on RDR page but that's a related but separate bug.

[hein22]

 

Yep, watched the track. It's the same behavior as I was describing.

 

My opinion is that you should LOSE the bottom HAFU when your radar paints the target (in the JHMCS display). The HAFUs on the HMD are MIDS INFORMATION. They can't be directly compared with the radar HAFU's, since the HMD doesn't display raw radar hits. As such, they always represent datalink contacts. A top and bottom half together are superfluous. There's no need to show a diamond like shape.

 

Bottom Half - MIDs contact not detected by own radar.

Top Half - MIDs contact also detected by own radar.

 

Again, there's a bug with Donor only (non-AWACS) HAFU's not displaying bottom half on RDR page but that's a related but separate bug.

 

I know about that bug, I posted it in OP and it was me who provided the tracks.

 

Again, if what you say is correct, then we have a bug here. You state that the HMD SHOULD display MIDS information... Well... it isn't. If you paint a contact then the MIDS information is lost and you get stuck with your own HAFU status which is bugged and should be replaced by donor's, and that goes against your statement of HMD displaying MIDS information.

[AvroLanc]

 

I know about that bug, I posted it in OP and it was me who provided the tracks.

 

Again, if what you say is correct, then we have a bug here. You state that the HMD SHOULD display MIDS information... Well... it isn't. If you paint a contact then the MIDS information is lost and you get stuck with your own HAFU status which is bugged and should be replaced by donor's, and that goes against your statement of HMD displaying MIDS information.

 

Sorry, I'm not sure if we're understanding each other. What do you mean by 'you get stuck with your own HAFU status which is bugged'?

 

I've taken control of your track and it behaves logically:

 

Start using SIL to silence the radar. I notice that the bottom half HAFU's are displayed with the correct shape for the contact.

Now, activate the radar and I see that the bottom shape is replaced by a top shape, except the top shape is now an unknown staple. Because the HMD only displays MIDS, the disappearance of the bottom isn't a major problem. I know it's a datalink link contact that I need to IFF. Is your issue the unknown status? Are you expecting a top and bottom togther?

 

If you SIL again, the contacts revert to a pure DL with correct HAFU status.

 

Maybe this is intended and represents the need to IFF an unknown contact, just like the radar. I don't know, it seems logical to me atm.

[hein22]

 

Sorry, I'm not sure if we're understanding each other. What do you mean by 'you get stuck with your own HAFU status which is bugged'?

 

I've taken control of your track and it behaves logically:

 

Start using SIL to silence the radar. I notice that the bottom half HAFU's are displayed with the correct shape for the contact.

Now, activate the radar and I see that the bottom shape is replaced by a top shape, except the top shape is now an unknown staple. Because the HMD only displays MIDS, the disappearance of the bottom isn't a major problem. I know it's a datalink link contact that I need to IFF. Is your issue the unknown status? Are you expecting a top and bottom togther?

 

If you SIL again, the contacts revert to a pure DL with correct HAFU status.

 

Maybe this is intended and represents the need to IFF an unknown contact, just like the radar. I don't know, it seems logical to me atm.

 

No I am not expecting a top and bottom HAFU, as that's is not realistic in HMD.

 

I am expecting an always bottom HAFU just like it should. If you paint the contact the MSI logic dictates that the HAFU should be offboard. At least that's how Wags always explained it.

 

Maybe I am wrong, totally possible, but that's how I understand it now.

 

Again, if what you say is correct and the HMD is a MIDS exclusive shower, then the top hafu would not be there.

[AvroLanc]

 

No I am not expecting a top and bottom HAFU, as that's is not realistic in HMD.

 

I am expecting an always bottom HAFU just like it should. If you paint the contact the MSI logic dictates that the HAFU should be offboard. At least that's how Wags always explained it.

 

Maybe I am wrong, totally possible, but that's how I understand it now.

 

Again, if what you say is correct and the HMD is a MIDS exclusive shower, then the top hafu would not be there.

 

Yeah, I'm not saying the HMD is MIDS exclusive, just that it needs a contact to have a MIDS contribution to display something (unless obviously it's your own L&S).

 

The Top HAFU represents a MIDS contact that your OWN radar can also see.

 

Again, I'm guessing to a certain amount since there's no documentation yet. It's logical (I think) to me.

[hein22]

 

Yeah, I'm not saying the HMD is MIDS exclusive, just that it needs a contact to have a MIDS contribution to display something (unless obviously it's your own L&S).

 

The Top HAFU represents a MIDS contact that your OWN radar can also see.

 

Again, I'm guessing to a certain amount since there's no documentation yet. It's logical (I think) to me.

 

Ok, let me try real quick what happens if I turn off the surv option or even not having a surv contributor. According to you it should not display anything if I paint one.

[hein22]

Ok, it doesn't show anything if no contributor is online, just L&S and DT2. You might be right.

[AvroLanc]

Ok, it doesn't show anything if no contributor is online, just L&S and DT2. You might be right.

 

Ok I agree, but I think that highlights another Bug lol....

 

If you deselect SURV or have no AWACS why aren't we getting the F/F (members) link information? I've made a track/report about this a few weeks ago. I don't think it's fixed. Can you see what I mean?

 

edit: original bug report

https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/english/digital-combat-simulator/dcs-f-a-18c-hornet/bugs-aa/291070-investigating-f-f-datalink-contracts-not-showing

[hein22]

 

Ok I agree, but I think that highlights another Bug lol....

 

If you deselect SURV or have no AWACS why aren't we getting the F/F (members) link information? I've made a track/report about this a few weeks ago. I don't think it's fixed. Can you see what I mean?

 

edit: original bug report

https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/english/digital-combat-simulator/dcs-f-a-18c-hornet/bugs-aa/291070-investigating-f-f-datalink-contracts-not-showing

 

Oh yeah, I remember that bug. But I just tested that if you do have an awacs and you deselect SURV you still see everything in HMD. HMD Only gets blank if no awacs is there at all. F/F is hard to test with AI now as it only works if the AI is actually targeting in STT, if they search and paint then the SA won't pick up anything until they lock on. So maybe F/F with human in search mode does work, I don't know.

 

If you want we could test it later online.

[AvroLanc]

 

Oh yeah, I remember that bug. But I just tested that if you do have an awacs and you deselect SURV you still see everything in HMD. HMD Only gets blank if no awacs is there at all. F/F is hard to test with AI now as it only works if the AI is actually targeting in STT, if they search and paint then the SA won't pick up anything until they lock on. So maybe F/F with human in search mode does work, I don't know.

 

If you want we could test it later online.

 

Ahh OK, if the AI only transmit when in STT, then that explains it. It used to work in plain search though. Frustrating.

 

Yep, PM me at some point, time's a bit tight later unfortunately.

[hein22]

 

Ahh OK, if the AI only transmit when in STT, then that explains it. It used to work in plain search though. Frustrating.

 

Yep, PM me at some point, time's a bit tight later unfortunately.

 

Alrighty. Mine as well, but surely we can talk and arrange some time.

 

Thanks.