Training missions are confusing with bugs and inconsistencies

[imacken]

Not sure if this should be in Missions sub forum, but that seems to be to 'Share your missions and campaigns', so I'll try here.

I'm a little confused by these TMs. In yesterday's patch notes, it says they have been improved, but out of the 3 or 4 I tried, I can't see that.

They seem to just be the A-10C I missions with the MkII replaced in ME. This means that there are a lot of errors as things have changed - especially HOTAS functions - with the MkII.  (An example being pressing Coolie Hat down to swap MFD displays is mentioned but no longer has that function.)

Importantly, the MAV one, it is not possible to progress as the instructor talks about OSB-14 on the right MFD, when the MAV is actually on the left MFD OSB-11 (see screenshot).

(Very weirdly, this error has been corrected (with a new voice) in the original A-10C MAV TM recently!)

There are also all sorts of right-click/left-click errors which will confuse new users, and other aspects that just don't work any more.

Now, I understand that we are in early stages with the MkII, but this seems odd.

What 'improvements' have been made?

 

(NOTE: I personally am not seeking advice on training, I am just commenting on the state of the missions, so please don't suggest YT videos or reading of the manual/guides.)

 

[aledmb]

yeah, the in-game tutorials for most modules are like this... they have big inconsistencies that sometimes are even game breaking.

 

i would suggest reading the manuals... even those have inconsistencies because they are not 100% up to date, but i've always found i could adapt more easily in those cases.

[Ziptie]

 

On 12/18/2020 at 2:03 AM, imacken said:

(NOTE: I personally am not seeking advice on training, I am just commenting on the state of the missions, so please don't suggest YT videos or reading of the manual/guides.)

54 minutes ago, aledmb said:

i would suggest reading the manuals... even those have inconsistencies because they are not 100% up to date, but i've always found i could adapt more easily in those cases.

 

............................. 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[imacken]

1 hour ago, aledmb said:

yeah, the in-game tutorials for most modules are like this... they have big inconsistencies that sometimes are even game breaking.

But you're missing the point which is:

1) this is a 'new' module

2) the old TMs seem to have been used with all their inconsistencies and bugs, just with the MkII swapped in from ME.

3) the patch notes said they have been 'improved' for the MkII

4) the original A-10C MkI TMs (well certainly the Mav one) seem to have been updated but the MkIIs haven't.

Doesn't feel right, especially for users new to the Warthog, having purchased the MkII.

46 minutes ago, Ziptie said:

 

 

............................. 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

I know, right!  

[aledmb]

5 hours ago, imacken said:

But you're missing the point which is:

1) this is a 'new' module

2) the old TMs seem to have been used with all their inconsistencies and bugs, just with the MkII swapped in from ME.

3) the patch notes said they have been 'improved' for the MkII

4) the original A-10C MkI TMs (well certainly the Mav one) seem to have been updated but the MkIIs haven't.

Doesn't feel right, especially for users new to the Warthog, having purchased the MkII.

I know, right!  

 

you don't have a choice, my friend. it's either the bugged in-game tutorials or the manuals.

 

dcs has been like this forever.

Edited December 21, 2020 by aledmb

[TheGuardian]

I think he is speaking more to why it "has" to be this way. If we report bugs and ED says they fixed the TMs and improved them, these things still shouldn't be happening.

[imacken]

16 minutes ago, aledmb said:

 

you don't have a choice, my friend. it's either the bugged in-game tutorials or the manuals.

 

dcs has been like this forever.

 

The point is that new pilots who have just paid $80 for this 'new' module, should not have to expect advertised Training Missions that don't work.  Just because 'DCS has been like this forever', is absolutely no reason or excuse for this. Especially when they are advertised as being 'improved'.

These are bugs like anything else, and frankly, should have been fixed long before they were published for a 'new' module.

[Iron Sights]

Yeah, I noticed the same. Looks just the same training missions from the old A-10 just canned up to the new one. The maverick mission just doesn’t work because you can’t switch screens on the new module. It can be frustrating.

 

Iron Sights

[imacken]

Yes, but as I said, it’s weird because the original Mk I Mav mission has been corrected!

[Ziptie]

2 hours ago, Iron Sights said:

Yeah, I noticed the same. Looks just the same training missions from the old A-10 just canned up to the new one. The maverick mission just doesn’t work because you can’t switch screens on the new module. It can be frustrating.

 

Iron Sights

 

You can set any sensor display, to either MFD.  Just press and HOLD one of the lower OSBs until the page changes, then select what sensor display you want and press the OSB location on the bottom row you want to place that sensor display at.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[imacken]

1 minute ago, Ziptie said:

 

You can set any sensor display, to either MFD.  Just press and HOLD one of the lower OSBs until the page changes, then select what sensor display you want and press the OSB location on the bottom row you want to place that sensor display at.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

I assume you haven’t tried the mission in question!

[Ziptie]

19 minutes ago, imacken said:

I assume you haven’t tried the mission in question!

 

 

Haven't had the need to do any of the training missions for the A10C in years.  Have I tried the mission, yes.  Recently, no.  This still shouldn't make it so you cannot place whatever sensor display on either MFD.  Are you saying that the training mission doesn't allow you to do this, with the method that I outlined in my previous post?  If so, I'm not sure how that can even be limited via the mission editor, as that isn't something that can be limited, ever.

 

EDIT:  When I return home after Christmas, I'll boot up the mission and give it a go to see what all the fuss is about.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

Edited December 25, 2020 by Ziptie
EDIT:

[imacken]

1 hour ago, Ziptie said:

 

 

Haven't had the need to do any of the training missions for the A10C in years.  Have I tried the mission, yes.  Recently, no.  This still shouldn't make it so you cannot place whatever sensor display on either MFD.  Are you saying that the training mission doesn't allow you to do this, with the method that I outlined in my previous post?  If so, I'm not sure how that can even be limited via the mission editor, as that isn't something that can be limited, ever.

 

EDIT:  When I return home after Christmas, I'll boot up the mission and give it a go to see what all the fuss is about.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

Yes, I am saying you can’t progress in the mission. The fact that you don’t actually try the missions says it all. They are riddled with issues, which is a shame for the new users. 

[Ziptie]

4 hours ago, imacken said:

Yes, I am saying you can’t progress in the mission. The fact that you don’t actually try the missions says it all. They are riddled with issues, which is a shame for the new users. 

 

The fact that I haven't tried the mission "recently" is how you should word that - and that is because I know what I'm doing and don't require the training, along with the fact that I haven't been able to fly as I'm on holiday away from my gaming PC.  As stated, I will try when I get back from holiday.  Thanks.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[imacken]

I don’t need the training either as I stated in post #1. That is not the point. In addition, the missions have just recently been added, so there is no need for me to add ‘recently’. This is the Mk II TMs we are discussing. See earlier posts here. 

[Ziptie]

1 minute ago, imacken said:

I don’t need the training either as I stated in post #1. That is not the point. In addition, the missions have just recently been added, so there is no need for me to add ‘recently’. This is the Mk II TMs we are discussing. See earlier posts here. 

 

Terrific.  I will try them when I am home.

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Iron Sights]

I’ll give it a try, thanks for the info. I’ll was going through the manual with no luck. 

[Ziptie]

On 12/25/2020 at 10:44 AM, imacken said:

Yes, I am saying you can’t progress in the mission. The fact that you don’t actually try the missions says it all. They are riddled with issues, which is a shame for the new users. 

 

 

So had a chance to try the training mission today, before my Oculus cable "broke" .............

 

Just as I tried to elude to in a previous post - what you need to do (and others) is to press and hold the OSB that is 'highlighted' when the IP wants you to press the OSB to select the MAV display on the right MFD.

 

Press and hold the OSB, then select MAV, then press the OSB (that is still highlighted where MAV was originally displayed in the A10C "I").

I understand that the training "tutorial" should be adjusted to reflect the new orientation - however this is also partly a good 'mini training' for people learning the A10C, as part of knowing how to operate the systems in the aircraft, is that you are able to setup the displays on the MFDs to your liking.

Anyways, I said I'd try the mission and report back - so that is the reason for my reply.  Was able to progress to the end of the mission, used the GAU on the remaining targets after employing all 4 Mavericks (2xD and 2xH).
 

 

Happy New Year

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[imacken]

4 hours ago, Ziptie said:

 

 

So had a chance to try the training mission today, before my Oculus cable "broke" .............

 

Just as I tried to elude to in a previous post - what you need to do (and others) is to press and hold the OSB that is 'highlighted' when the IP wants you to press the OSB to select the MAV display on the right MFD.

 

Press and hold the OSB, then select MAV, then press the OSB (that is still highlighted where MAV was originally displayed in the A10C "I").

I understand that the training "tutorial" should be adjusted to reflect the new orientation - however this is also partly a good 'mini training' for people learning the A10C, as part of knowing how to operate the systems in the aircraft, is that you are able to setup the displays on the MFDs to your liking.

Anyways, I said I'd try the mission and report back - so that is the reason for my reply.  Was able to progress to the end of the mission, used the GAU on the remaining targets after employing all 4 Mavericks (2xD and 2xH).
 

 

Happy New Year

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

Honestly, I have no idea why you are taking this approach.  I think you are missing the point of the thread. It is not to find workarounds for broken missions, but to point out that some of these 'new' missions are out of date and need to be fixed.

The Maverick mission is just an example of the issue of TMs on the Mk II.  (Ironically, as I said, ED have updated the same Maverick mission for the original A-10C in the last few weeks!) 

I sincerely hope that ED will fix these missions soon, as they provide an invaluable aid to new pilots trying to learn a module from scratch.

Edited January 1, 2021 by imacken

[Mogster]

2 hours ago, imacken said:

Honestly, I have no idea why you are taking this approach.  I think you are missing the point of the thread. It is not to find workarounds for broken missions, but to point out that some of these 'new' missions are out of date and need to be fixed.

The Maverick mission is just an example of the issue of TMs on the Mk II.  (Ironically, as I said, ED have updated the same Maverick mission for the original A-10C in the last few weeks!) 

I sincerely hope that ED will fix these missions soon, as they provide an invaluable aid to new pilots trying to learn a module from scratch.

 

Agreed. New users can be paying $80 for A10C II, the training missions should work.
 

The training missions are really important, so much more fun and accessible than reading the manual and they are probably the first thing a new user will look for when the fire up the sim. 

[imacken]

Yep, and the A-10C ones are some of the best of all the DCS modules.  A lot of attention to detail.  It won't take much to make all of them work. Most of them are OK.  Once ED fix that and add some for the new features in the Mk II, it should be one of the best collections in DCS along with any of the Baltic Dragon ones, e.g. Mirage and Harrier.

[Ziptie]

On 1/1/2021 at 1:16 AM, imacken said:

Honestly, I have no idea why you are taking this approach.  I think you are missing the point of the thread. It is not to find workarounds for broken missions, but to point out that some of these 'new' missions are out of date and need to be fixed.

The Maverick mission is just an example of the issue of TMs on the Mk II.  (Ironically, as I said, ED have updated the same Maverick mission for the original A-10C in the last few weeks!) 

I sincerely hope that ED will fix these missions soon, as they provide an invaluable aid to new pilots trying to learn a module from scratch.

 

 

 

I was simply highlighting that it is possible to progress through the training mission.  I understand that it isn't perfect, and to fix it - I'm sure it's possible.  Priority?  Clearly not in their eyes.  Doesn't mean I agree with it.

 

You had stated that you couldn't "progress in the training mission" - I was simply providing a method to progress, as players aren't "stuck."

 

Is it right?  No.

Is it manageable?  Yes.

 

We're on the same side here sir, no need for feeling like I'm putting you down or attacking you.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie