Analyse messages from AWACS and Control Tower ?

[Majesco]

There're messages we receive from AWACS or Control Tower:

 

- 011, Overlord, Clean

 

- 011, Overlord, Home Bearing 335 for 190

 

- 011, Overlord, Bandits Bearing 046 for 137, Angels Medium (High/Low), Hot (or Cold/ Flanking/ Merged)

 

- 011, Overlord, Pop Up Group Bearing 001 for 283

So:

1. 011 = my plane (Rus aircrafts only) ?

2. Clean means no enemy or threats ?

3. Overlord = Russian AWACS A-50 Mainstay ?

4. Home Bearing = heading to home airbase ?

5. Angels Medium = Enemies are at medium altitude or what else ? If im correct, Medium or Low/ High Altitude = ? km

 

6. Hot/ Cold/ Flanking/ Merged = ?

 

7. Bandits Bearing 046 for 137 means enemy's bearing = 46o (2h), distance to enemy = 137km or mi (depend on Rus or US planes) ?

 

8. What does the "Pop Up Group Bearing" mean ?

 

and...

 

011, Control, Fly heading 338 for 212 At Two Thousand

9. Control = Ground Control Tower ?

10. What does "At Two Thousand" mean ?

 

Thanks in advance !

Edited June 15, 2008 by Majesco

[RedTiger]

Thats all brevity code. What I've always found interesting is that the sim translates the Russian AWACS and tower calls to NATO brevity code.

 

Most of thats explanatory. Clean = no threats, Hot = heading towards you, Cold = heading away form you, Merged = merged :D

 

Angels can be anything from low to very high, each one has a set altitude ASL/AGL in feet.

 

In LOMAC, "popup" just means that a new contact has appeared for AWACS. There may be more to it than that in reality, more meaning assigned specifically what is considered a Popup.

 

Check out this article here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brevity_code

 

Overlord is the AWACS and home is your home airbase. Also called "home plate".

 

You've got the part about control right..."011, Control"....he's calling you and identifying himself as the tower there. As for that heading stuff...its trying to simulate the type of things control would tell you once you are in their airspace, but it sorta doesn't work so well in LOMAC's setting. In Falcon, for example, the tower will talk you down and if you follow their directions, it will in fact set you up on a base leg to land. Following the towers directions is a good idea since there's other traffic you need to be aware of. In LOMAC, you can generally ignore all this and just use your eyeballs. I don't think the tower commands reflect any of the traffic created by other players or the AI. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

For the record, I'm not sure either about what the "for 212" part means (runway 212? Like the final heading will be 212 coming off the base leg, the direction the runway points?). As for the at the "at two thousand", pretty sure thats the altitude you'd be required to fly. There's usually some altitude you have to abide by once your in the controller's airspace

Edited June 15, 2008 by RedTiger

[nscode]

If BIRD means friendly SAM, what do you say when there are actually birds around :D

[nemises]

011, Control, Fly heading 338 for 212 At Two Thousand

 

011 = you

Control = tower

Heading 338 = your heading to turn to

for 212 = 212 KM's distance

at 2 thousand = at 2000 metres

[Ironhand]

Both AWACs and the tower follow the same basic format. So...

 

011, Control, Fly heading 338 for 212 At Two Thousand

 

1) 011: your call sign

2) Control: this is the caller's callsign--in this case the tower

2) fly heading ###: point your nose in this direction

3) for ###: and fly this many miles/kilometers to the airbase

4) at ####: at this altitude

 

011, Overlord, Bandits Bearing 046 for 137, Angels Medium/High/Low, Hot/Cold/ Flanking/ Merged

 

1) 011: your callsign

2) Overload: this is the caller's callsign--in this case AWACs

3) bandits: the bad guys

4) bearing ###: are in this direction

5) for ###: and are this many miles/kilometers away

 

6) Angels: their altitude is

a) low: Below roughly 10000'

b) medium: roughly 10000' - 30000'

c)high: roughly 30000' +

 

7) Hot: Positive closure between you and the bad guy

8) Cold: Negative closure between you and the bad guy

9) Flanking: Almost no closure between you and the bad guy.

 

Also...

1) Home: the airbase you are asking to land at

2) Popup group: Aircraft that have just shown up on radar. It can be a previous group that disappeared behind a mountain and re-emerged from hiding, etc. So it does not always mean that it's a brand new group.

 

Rich

[Azrayen]

Popup group: Aircraft that have just shown up on radar. It can be a previous group that disappeared behind a mountain and re-emerged from hiding, etc. So it does not always mean that it's a brand new group.

I can't remember how it's modellised in LO, but IRL "pop-up group" is used for groups that show themselves next to your position (approx < 25Nm).

For longer range, "new group" is used instead.

 

Cheers :)

Az'

[Guest Syncho]

5) for ###: and are this many miles/kilometers away

 

Thanks for this info Ironhand I always thought that when AWACS says "bandits bearing 305 for 010" that the 010 bearing meant this was the direction the bandit is flying towards and not the distance to the bandit, this post really has helped me.

 

I assume that in the Eagle this 'distance bearing' is in nm's and not km's am I correct?.

[nemises]

yep, f15 and A10 distances and altitudes are in Miles and Thousands of Feet.

[Guest Syncho]

yep, f15 and A10 distances and altitudes are in Miles and Thousands of Feet.

 

OK rgr that Nemesis. Thanks. :thumbup:

 

Majesto just incase you did'nt know, when AWACS says "merged" you are within 5nm of the enemy.

Edited June 16, 2008 by Syncho

[Majesco]

Thank you all for helps, especially Ironhand :thumbup:

 

to Syncho: AWACS says "Merged" after the enemy has already been destroyed :D (within 5nm) :P

[Majesco]

2 more questions:

 

1. How to know when the onboard radar is turned on /off in NAV mode (or other modes such as CAC/GND not RWS mode [#2 >> key I] ) in US and Rus fighters ?

Any light or smth else to make pilot aware of radar On or Off ?

 

2. How to know the threat when an enemy fighter had a lock on F-15 ?

(F-15 has no RWR like Su-27)

Edited June 19, 2008 by Majesco

[X-man]

In US planes you can always watch the radar screen. If it's active, then the radar is on. It works in all modes I think.

 

In russian planes though, I dont think you'll see it in nav mode...

[RedTiger]

For the F-15 RWR -

 

A chirping sound every few seconds indicates that enemy radar is on and is painting you. There will only be one chirp every 2 or 3 seconds. If that chirp becomes steady and rapid (should be several chirps each second) you've been locked. For a missile launch, you will here a very distinct sound, almost like a ringing. You'll recognize it when it happens, trust me.

[wed]

6) Angels: their altitude is

a) low: Below roughly 10000'

b) medium: roughly 10000' - 30000'

c)high: roughly 30000' +

In LockOn High mean 20000+

For example contact at 22000ft indicated as "High"

In RL High mean 30000+ (Target above 30,000 feet MSL)

[Guest Syncho]

2 more questions:

 

1. How to know when the onboard radar is turned on /off in NAV mode (or other modes such as CAC/GND not RWS mode [#2 >> key I] ) in US and Rus fighters ?

Any light or smth else to make pilot aware of radar On or Off ?

 

2. How to know the threat when an enemy fighter had a lock on F-15 ?

(F-15 has no RWR like Su-27)

 

1. You can see if radar is on or off by looking at the radar mfd.

 

2. TEWS is an RWR.

 

When a fighter locks you in STT mode the diamond symbol '<>' will apprear around the '29' symbol in TEWS displaying <29>. TEWS will start chirping quickly alerting you to an STT lock. When the contact launches a missile as well as the launch warning tone TEWS will also display the symbol of a missile which is an 'M' inside a diamond '<M>' it will also flash intermittingly indicating a missile is locked onto you and inbound in relation to your bearing on the TEWS.

 

The '29' symbology in the RWR represents all Russian fighter's and '15' is another Eagle '50' or 'E3' is AWACS.

 

Imagine the TEWS screen is like looking down on your Eagle from above. The cross in the middle is your Eagle and it's in exact relation to your bearing so if you get a contact on the RWR with the 29 symbology at the 12 o'clock position on the TEWS then your contact is directly in front of you. The closer the symbology gets to the cross the closer the threat is to you.

 

Becareful though, MiG-29-S's are able to launch R-77's in TWS mode. TWS mode does not give you a STT lock or launch warning it only gives you a search warning. You will only get a short missile launch warning when the R-77 goes active.

 

TEWS once interpreted correctly and efficiently gives you far superiour SA and tactical awareness than the Russian RWR.

Edited June 20, 2008 by Syncho

[Azrayen]

Beg your pardon :

2. TEWS is an RWR.

TEWS includes an RWR ;)

 

The '29' symbology in the RWR represents all Russian fighter's

Not exactly.

The '29' symbology in the RWR represents Russian fighter's whoose radar's signal caracteristics are equivalent to the MiG-29 radar's signal. This means :

- MiG-29

- Su-27

- Su-33

There are lots of other russian fighter that aren't displayed '29' on the RWR, for example : the MiG-23.

 

 

The closer the symbology gets to the cross the closer the threat is to you.

Yes & No. The distance between an RWR symbol and the center of the RWR (= your plane) is related to the power of the radar received signal. That means that a Su-27 (big radar, big power) will appear closer than a MiG-23 on the RWR, even if they are at the same distance from you.

 

 

Cheers

Az'

Edited June 20, 2008 by Azrayen

[Guest Syncho]

Beg your pardon :

 

TEWS includes an RWR ;)

 

 

Not exactly.

The '29' symbology in the RWR represents Russian fighter's whoose radar's signal caracteristics are equivalent to the MiG-29 radar's signal. This means :

- MiG-29

- Su-27

- Su-33

There are lots of other russian fighter that aren't displayed '29' on the RWR, for example : the MiG-23.

 

 

 

Yes & No. The distance between an RWR symbol and the center of the RWR (= your plane) is related to the power of the radar received signal. That means that a Su-27 (big radar, big power) will appear closer than a MiG-23 on the RWR, even if they are at the same distance from you.

 

 

Cheers

Az'

 

Thanks for the info but there's nothing you stated to me which I already didn't know. I was generalising, relating & simplifying the RWR built into TEWS to an inexperienced person who's used to flying Su's. Oh and by Russian fighters I mean LO 'flyables' (not the whole array of the Russian Airforce). :)

Edited June 20, 2008 by Syncho

[Azrayen]

Well, I mostly fly Su's and still like precision :D

 

I assume it may be helpful for other reader of this thread, too :)

 

Cheers

Az'

[Guest Syncho]

OK you may want precision but to someone new to TEWS there's far too much info regarding TEWS, you will just overload them with wayyyyy too much information putting them off, and if I wanted to be precise on TEWS and all of it's defensive sub systems this post would quickly lead to a 1000 word essay which I neither have time or effort for.

Edited June 20, 2008 by Syncho

[GGTharos]

There's no TEWS in LO's F-15C, there's only RWR. The TEWS is the bridge between RWR, jammer and counter-measures, and possibly the radar also.

 

Further, an <m> is only displayed if the missile is an active radar guided missile, otherwise nothing is displayed. That's kind of important.

 

Lastly, MiG-29S is not capable of launching from TWS. Due to certain BUGS they can launch without an STT track, and that's a big difference.

 

Once you are locked, it's time to begin defensive maneuvering, missile warning or no. You should have, however, set up your defense before things get that far anyway.

[Azrayen]

OK you may want precision but to someone new to TEWS there's far too much info regarding TEWS, you will just overload them with wayyyyy too much information putting them off, and if I wanted to be precise on TEWS and all of it's defensive sub systems this post would quickly lead to a 1000 word essay which I neither have time or effort for.

Well... You're certainly free to have, write and defend, your own opinion on that topic, but I disagree with you on some points :

Yes, we must avoid to overload "new guys" with too much info :dontgetit:

but

No, we must not teach them "wrong" data to make it more simple. :ermm:

 

My opinion is based on my personnal experience as a virtual instructor (no particular pride here, this is just a factual explaination)

The "students" I "teach" in LockOn do not complain to receive *relatively* precise data on their aicraft's stytems. And they feel it better and easier :

- to take a bit more time to understand from the beginning a "complex" functionnality (*)

than

- to learn more quickly something wrong, that you'd to dis-learn before re-learn the correct data as you go farther and deeper in your formation.

 

(*) for example : distance on the RWR screen is related to radar power, not planes distance

 

Otherly said : it's harder to loose wrong habits / reflexes than to learn "from scratch".

 

There's no TEWS in LO's F-15C, there's only RWR.

Right. But "TEWS" is what's written next to the RWR screen. This explains the term confusion.

 

The TEWS is the bridge between RWR, jammer and counter-measures, and possibly the radar also.

Not the radar AFAIK : The F-15 TEWS consists of the AN/ALR-56C radar warning receiver (RWR), the AN/ALQ-135 internal countermeasures set (ICS), the AN/ALQ-128 electronic warfare warning set, and the AN/ALE-40/45 countermeasures dispenser. (public source)

 

Cheers

Az'

Edited June 20, 2008 by Azrayen

[GGTharos]

I am only going to say here that I strongly believe that the radar is involved, at least a little ...

[Guest Syncho]

I am only going to say here that I strongly believe that the radar is involved, at least a little ...

 

Correct the radar is a sub system of TEWS. ALL defensive systems in the Eagle are linked to the central computer including the radar..

 

LO's TEWS is modelled incorrectly regarding counter-measures and ECM. Oh and I can judge the distance pretty good but not precisley on the LO RWR regardless of what fighter it is.

 

So it's a bug that enables them to launch TWS style? I often get no launch warning ragarding R-77's.

 

And I quote "The F-15 Eagle’s tactical electronic warfare system [TEWS] is an integrated countermeasures system. Radar, radar jammer, warning receiver and chaff/flare dispenser all work together to detect, identify and counter threats posed by an enemy. For example, if the warning receiver detects a threat before the radar jammer, the warning receiver will inform the jammer of the threat. A Strike Eagle’s TEWS can jam radar systems operating in high frequencies, such as radar used by short-range surface-to-air missiles, antiaircraft artillery and airborne threats. Current improvements to TEWS will enhance the aircraft’s ability to jam enemy radar systems. The addition of new hardware and software, known as Band 1.5, will round out the TEWS capability by jamming threats in mid-to-low frequencies, such as long-range radar systems. The equipment is expected to go into full production sometime in late 1999".

Edited June 20, 2008 by Syncho

[GGTharos]

They're launching either maddog (no lock) or from EOS. Yes, bug. The WCS isn't supposed to generate a launch command without an STT track.

There are some MiG-29S versions with a radar that can do two-target TWS track and attack, but there's I think less than one squadron's worth of those in service.

[Guest Syncho]

They're launching either maddog (no lock) or from EOS. Yes, bug. The WCS isn't supposed to generate a launch command without an STT track.

There are some MiG-29S versions with a radar that can do two-target TWS track and attack, but there's I think less than one squadron's worth of those in service.

 

It's not EOS my freind I'm getting a search chirp from the bandit so they are must be switching off TWS and going pitbull... I really dont know. Thanks for the reply.

Edited June 20, 2008 by Syncho