VR Future

[Harlikwin]

2 hours ago, StevanJ said:

Im selling a G940?

 

Well, not exactly what I'm looking for. What I need doesn't actually exist yet. Basically I want a FFB base that I can use with extensions, and hot swap say A Virpil CM50 on it with a WH or winwing F18 stick, or a VKB F14 stick to suit whichever plane I'm in best. So far I have a "collection" of base+stick, none FFB yet. MilesD was working on something like this a while back, and he is mad genious so I'm hopeful he pulls it off.

 

Similarly I want a throttle that I Can easily swap the "tops" of for whatever plane I'm flying, and winwing is "sort-of" working on that, we shall see how it goes.

 

Essentially what I have found works for me for VR and is most immersive is having the exact right stick/buttonology for both the stick and throttle. With the current offerings out there I can get very close for the following jets:

 

F18 (WW TQ/stick) 100%

F14 (WW TQ/VKB F14 stick) not perfect but doable

F16 (FSSB F16/Cougar throttle)

JF17 (CM50/Cougar throttle) like 90% (someone needs to make a quick swap mod for the range knob and 4 position switch on the jeff)

A10 (TM throttle/TM F16 stick)

F15 (TM throttle/TM F18 stick)

Harrier (TM F18 stick/WH throttle) (again, far from perfect, but does work fine)

mig21 (CM50/Cougar) pretty close, not many buttons on the mig throttle

Mirage 2k (CM50/Cougar) Again farily good, just buttons in odd places.

FC3 (CM50/TM WH throttle) not ideal on the throttle and since its FC3 you have to map lots of stupid stuff.

 

And then point control to actually flip switches and click on pit stuff.

 

I recently got the WW takeoff panel, mainly cuz I wanted a gear lever to experiment with, and really the trick there is getting in the semi correct position in the VR pit which thus far has been hard to do in a few cases but it "sort-of" works.

 

[Fri13]

9 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

 

Well, not exactly what I'm looking for. What I need doesn't actually exist yet. Basically I want a FFB base that I can use with extensions, and hot swap say A Virpil CM50 on it with a WH or winwing F18 stick, or a VKB F14 stick to suit whichever plane I'm in best. So far I have a "collection" of base+stick, none FFB yet. MilesD was working on something like this a while back, and he is mad genious so I'm hopeful he pulls it o.f

 

There is a such base, but it is expensive, $1000 IIRC. 

 

 

 

[Baldrick33]

3 hours ago, StevanJ said:

When i 'boot up DCS' I turn 90 degrees right, so my left hand can rest on my desk to use the keyb'.

Same if im away on my laptop. Just find a comfy seat and relax.

This 'not more immersive', its like i said- Try it, if after two weeks, youve mastered it, can air to air refuel- then fine. Its not for you.
But unless you can actually do it, you cant say.

When I and others here talk about immersion, it isn't about being able to complete a task it is about feeling like it is as close to the real thing as possible. Sure there are limits of the simulation and our controls and there will always be ways to improve that with hardware and software developments but the key is we are simulating aircraft that we have controls - sticks, throttles and pedals that physically behave similar to the real thing. That isn't to belittle the achievement of flying with a keyboard and VR controllers or driving with an xbox controller, just that they detract from the sense of being in the simulated aircraft which VR is fantastic for.

 

 

 

 

[StevanJ]

2 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

Well, not exactly what I'm looking for. What I need doesn't actually exist yet. Basically I want a FFB base that I can use with extensions, and hot swap say A Virpil CM50 on it with a WH or winwing F18 stick, or a VKB F14 stick to suit whichever plane I'm in best. So far I have a "collection" of base+stick, none FFB yet. MilesD was working on something like this a while back, and he is mad genious so I'm hopeful he pulls it off.

 

Similarly I want a throttle that I Can easily swap the "tops" of for whatever plane I'm flying, and winwing is "sort-of" working on that, we shall see how it goes.

 

Essentially what I have found works for me for VR and is most immersive is having the exact right stick/buttonology for both the stick and throttle. With the current offerings out there I can get very close for the following jets:

 

F18 (WW TQ/stick) 100%

F14 (WW TQ/VKB F14 stick) not perfect but doable

F16 (FSSB F16/Cougar throttle)

JF17 (CM50/Cougar throttle) like 90% (someone needs to make a quick swap mod for the range knob and 4 position switch on the jeff)

A10 (TM throttle/TM F16 stick)

F15 (TM throttle/TM F18 stick)

Harrier (TM F18 stick/WH throttle) (again, far from perfect, but does work fine)

mig21 (CM50/Cougar) pretty close, not many buttons on the mig throttle

Mirage 2k (CM50/Cougar) Again farily good, just buttons in odd places.

FC3 (CM50/TM WH throttle) not ideal on the throttle and since its FC3 you have to map lots of stupid stuff.

 

And then point control to actually flip switches and click on pit stuff.

 

I recently got the WW takeoff panel, mainly cuz I wanted a gear lever to experiment with, and really the trick there is getting in the semi correct position in the VR pit which thus far has been hard to do in a few cases but it "sort-of" works.

 

This sounds like there is a lot of wires..
Maybe do a few videos so i can understand it a little better..

 

1 hour ago, Baldrick33 said:

When I and others here talk about immersion, it isn't about being able to complete a task it is about feeling like it is as close to the real thing as possible. Sure there are limits of the simulation and our controls and there will always be ways to improve that with hardware and software developments but the key is we are simulating aircraft that we have controls - sticks, throttles and pedals that physically behave similar to the real thing. That isn't to belittle the achievement of flying with a keyboard and VR controllers or driving with an xbox controller, just that they detract from the sense of being in the simulated aircraft which VR is fantastic for.

 

 

 

 

I get where youre coming from, Ive been there..

[Harlikwin]

2 hours ago, Fri13 said:

 

There is a such base, but it is expensive, $1000 IIRC. 

 

 

 

 

I mean it looks cool, and 1k I'd be willing to pay to replace all my other bases (provided it still has enough force to work with an extension), but I don't see the functionality to swap an actual TM/Virpil/VKB grip on the thing. Thats the major selling point. I want 1 base to rule them all. 

 

Requirements.

1) FFB base, works with a normalish length extension (i.e. something like a 3-4cm one or even floor mounted) that can generate the required forces

2) Compatibility with a WIDE variety of actual grips (frankly I Don't care the if 1 company makes them all or is just compatible with several manufactures i.e. Virpil/TM (VKB and their wierd ass connector would be hard).

3) HOT SWAP capability WITHIN DCS (i.e. I'm flying a tomcat online with an F14 grip, I want to switch to a flanker) ideally I don't want to exit DCS, I want to take 1 min to pull a lever, pop off the F14 grip, plonk on a Flanker grip and be GTG without restarting (even online).

 

Same goes for a throttle. and I don't care about all the extra switches for the pancake users because I largely don't use em.

 

Extra points for whoever then can also make a "modular" plug-n-play lego style L side panel where I can arrange a Gear lever and few other important switches (main thing here is ease of placing it correctly in 3d space and having the switches be close or easy to move around. 

 

 

 

 

[Harlikwin]

39 minutes ago, StevanJ said:

This sounds like there is a lot of wires..
Maybe do a few videos so i can understand it a little better..

 

 

 

I mean it is alot of wires (ask me how to solve 10 connected USB devices problems in DCS plz). But its basically, each grip/base combo like this, I have them stacked to the right side, throttles one the left side of my desk. Hopefully not rocket science to understand. To reduce "wires" I'd love to have a single joy base and throttle that are modular and hot-swappable while in DCS. The existing solution means I have multiple stick/base combos and throttles. That and point control gets me "perfect" in several planes in DCS, and "good enough" in several others. For my next trick, I'm gonna get me a Virpil Helo collective, though lord knows how I'm gonna get that to work...

 

The foxx mounts are near ideal for positioning a center mounted stick, the throttles tend to sit a bit too far forward but its a balance between absolute accuracy and convenience. Frankly I'll probably move the throttles to an adjustable "box" that they can sit on at some point (what I do with the winwing throttle since its a beast). 

 

It takes me about 60 seconds to switch between "planes". And in VR you don't care what it looks like IRL, just that your hands go in the right place and that the stick IRL is "close" to where it is in VR. I've found that "other" stuff, has to be placed more accurately (i.e. gearl lever or ICP) which kind of sucks, so I use point control. 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Harlikwin

[Fri13]

7 hours ago, Harlikwin said:

 

I mean it looks cool, and 1k I'd be willing to pay to replace all my other bases (provided it still has enough force to work with an extension), but I don't see the functionality to swap an actual TM/Virpil/VKB grip on the thing. Thats the major selling point. I want 1 base to rule them all. 

 

Sorry but didn't know that base was cancelled from entertainment sector after the was showing it with a thrustmaster threads. So it was compatible with everything you for for warthog, and so on Virpil too.

 

The inventor clearly went to far more profitable industry sector where feedback is more important and you can make big money there.

 

But, I don't know either is it true, but I read somewhere that you can use normal garden hose adapters with the warthog threads to make extensions to it. As anyways you can find the the proper threads to it as it can't be so special. Meaning, you can certainly modify any base to attach those warthog grips then, as you can always have base and grip buttons work separately. So there is hope to find a Force Feedback base and make grips go through arduino or something.