Is this a good AMD build for DCS VR?

[Cowboy10uk]

Hi guys, I’m building my brother a newish build after he fried his pc last month.   I have a max budget of £1500 so I’ve thought about going down the AMD route to keep costs down.    Now I will freely admit to being a Intel guy, and I’ve not built an AMD system since 97.   So I really haven’t been keeping up with what is worth getting or not.

 

Been reading up and taking advice from my best mate who is a AMD guy, and have come up with the following specs.

 

AMD Ryzen 7 5800x

ASUS tuf gaming X570 plus

32gb Corsair vengeance 3600mhz 

Samsung 980 pro 500gb M2 drive

Artic Liquid Freezer II Cpu cooler

Gigabyte gaming OC 3070

850W Cooler Master MWE, 80 PLUS Gold Fully Modular PSU

To keep costs down I’m planning to reuse his Coolermaster Stormtrooper case, case fans, Blu-ray drive and 2 x 2tb hard drives.  Think they were Barracudas, but of course that depends on if they still work or not. 
 

He mainly plays DCS at either 1080p or in VR, (oculus quest ) with everything pretty much set to low with his old build.     I would like to obviously significantly increase the FPS he gets and allow him to push the sliders right, so he can get the most out of DCS.   
 

Will this do it, or should I be looking at other components or a different route.

 

I have already found and purchased the 3070, due to them being like rocking horse ****

[Qiou87]

Depending where you are, AMD is actually more expensive (perf/money spent) right now due to shortages, compared to Intel. This is also because current Intel chips are at the end of the shelf life, new Intel 11th gen is coming next month in theory.

 

I wouldn't go for the 5800X in a limited budget for DCS. Right now, the 5800X is completely under-utilized by DCS and will perform the same as a 5600X. Going for an Intel i5-10600K would also be a solid backup if it is cheaper and easier to find than a 5600X. Single core performance is the most important point for DCS right now, and even if/when ED manages to utilize more cores, having 6 cores should be plenty considering DCS runs fine on (mostly) a single core right now...

The 5800X has a few issues, because it has 8 cores on a single CCX it tends to get very hot compared to 5600X or 5900X (both of which only have 6 cores active per CCX). A 5600X or 10600K would allow you to go for a much cheaper aircooling setup, with less noise and less maintenance issues compared to an AiO watercooling. AiOs look nice but they are a pain to install, a source of additional noise (pump + airbubbles) and worries down the road (liquid evaporating, pump failing, leaks, etc.). A nice aircooling from Noctua or BeQuiet for example can work for a decade without giving you any problems, and there is only a single mechanical component to look out for (the fan motor).

 

If you go for an AMD Zen3, I don't see why you couldn't go for a B550 board, they are essentially the same as X570 for normal gaming except for the passive cooling - X570 boards have an active fan which will most definitely get noisy over time. I like the B550-A PRO from MSI for a nice feature set at a reasonable price.

 

My final advice would be to go for a high-quality but less powerful PSU. The 3070 uses roughly 250W, so you don't need a 850W beast for that. A 650W would already be plenty enough for such a build, but pick a high-quality unit (Seasonic Focus GX or Corsair RMx for example).

 

The rest is fine, though the Samsung 980 Pro is probably overpowered and I'd get a 1TB drive instead (DCS alone takes up so much space!!), like a 970 EVO. It is nice to have a fast NVMe drive but the real-world difference in gaming between a good NVMe drive and an uber-fast one is very small - the price gap is large though. It only really impacts loading times but who can really tell if their game is loading in 5,2sec instead of 5,8sec?

Edited February 17, 2021 by Qiou87

[Leaderface]

For me they are solid choices if you can keep that 1.500 $ budget  (it won´t be easy)

A  1Tb SSD would be preferable too.

My bet would be a 5600X or a 5900X but 5800X it´s fine too (choice based on availability)

[Thinder]

On 2/17/2021 at 2:54 PM, Cowboy10uk said:

Hi guys, I’m building my brother a newish build after he fried his pc last month.   I have a max budget of £1500 so I’ve thought about going down the AMD route to keep costs down.  

32gb Corsair vengeance 3600mhz

 

If keeping the cost down is one thing, going for the Ryzen 7 5800x for gaming perhaps not the smartest choice then, 32gb Corsair vengeance 3600mhz doesn't mean much, could you please be more specific?

 

Are your sticks B.Die? One or two ranks, which configuration? Why 3600Mhz when the RAM speed has a lot less impact on performances than latency when it comes to Ryzen, especially the Zen 3 which architecture is optimized for lower latency? Which Corsair Vengeance kit are you planning? Because they come in different kits from CL14 to CL 18...

 

You mention the Artic Liquid Freezer II Cpu cooler, but you could gain up to 5% + in CPU performances with a good RAM-to-CPU bound without over-clocking so you're basically starting by the end of optimisation, simply because your CPU controller still will throttle everything back including CPU-to-GPU VRAM bandwidth, especially with 2 ranks per sticks.

 

If you're lucky with the chips quality lotery you can reach an increase of <> 6.93% with liquid cooling, compare this with the 6.04% I got from a proper RAM bound, which also allow the GPU to run faster simply because the controller doesn't throttle down any of the buses.

 

In short, the higher number of ranks at higher frequencies is a lot more difficult to handle for the CPU controller, so lower latency works better, B.Die works better with Ryzen anyway, and rank interleaving works better than with a two ranks CL16 kit running at higher frequencies, reason for the controller to throttle down.

 

Just a reminder, in order to make sure the Zen 3 CPU controllers can handle most situations (RAM) the System Memory Specification is Up to 3200MHz, so there is really little point going for a CL16 3600MHz kit if it's dual rank as it will put more load on the controller than a CL14 3200 kit which can run faster under load.

 

There is a premium for this sort of RAM compared to a dual rank at higher latency than CL14 but it is a lot more efficient as a solution than splashing the dosh in a liquid cooler while keeping the RAM/CPU bottleneck, your clock speed will be higher but the controller will still hold back under load.

 

The most efficient RAM I know of for the Ryzen are B.Die, one rank CL 14 and to take advantage of rank inlerleaving, single rank in 4 X stick configuration, 3200 GHz are good enough and they are designed for O.C as well is you're crazy about fequencies.

 

You can save a lot of dosh by purchasing a MSI B450 GAMING PLUS MAX motherboard, update the BIOS, spend what you saved compared to a motherboard twice its price in a better RAM kit, but if your brother is only going to do gaming, then 5600X is a far better choice than the 7 5800x.

 

Motherboard: £64.98, my CPU cost me £299.99, the G.SKILL kit £238.99 and for cooling I use an Artic Freezer 7X you can find under £15, and my cooling is excellent...

 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Thinder

[Bossco82]

I agree with Thinder, 5800x will give you nothing over the 5600x for DCS VR or flatscreen. As for Dram I checked 3200mhz C16 vs 3600mhz C16, the gain was minimal if anything at all. I use 4x8gb sticks of this kit. CMW16GX4M2Z3200C16. G Skill C14 kits are very good and the best option, difficult to find in the UK for me which is why I have Corsair. For a motherboard I personally use a MSI X570 Gaming Edge Wifi. I didn't get B550 as they had not been released when I bought my X570. It was also an open box from CCL for £110.00 so a bargain at the time. Its a solid board at a good price. 

 

Now like Quoi87 said its nice to have a NVME. I have a Gen 4 1tb model with my OS and games on the same drive and it boots up super fast. Actual mission loading times in DCS though, no real difference over a regular Sata SSD. So you could save money there. I only bought as again I found it for £90 on the Ebay. 

 

As for a graphics card, I use a 2080ti for the vram. My brother has a 3070 and my 2080ti performs better in DCS especially over PG and Syria. Only making the suggestion as an idea. A used EVGA 2080ti with warranty left over would perform better in DCS. I get 5-10 fps more than my brothers 3070. I dont use VR though I use 4k with Track IR. I say EVGA as I believe they have a transferable warranty should you need it. In an ideal scenario I would save on the CPU, and mobo and buy a 3080 if you can find one. 

 

All this is only advise based on my own 4k experience with DCS. At the end of the day its your rig, your money and your the only one that needs to be happy with it. Just remember synthetic tests on reviews don't translate smoothly into DCS performance. I found the balance between my 5600x, 3200 DDR4 and 2080ti perfect for 4k in DCS. The only change I would make is a Nvidia 3080 if I could find one. It took some time to get my rig right to be able to land at Dubai or Ramut David in Syria while still maintaining 4k@60hz vsync at high/ultra settings. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Bossco82

[Thinder]

1 hour ago, Bossco82 said:

I agree with Thinder, 5800x will give you nothing over the 5600x for DCS VR or flatscreen. As for Dram I checked 3200mhz C16 vs 3600mhz C16, the gain was minimal if anything at all. I use 4x8gb sticks of this kit. CMW16GX4M2Z3200C16. G Skill C14 kits are very good and the best option, difficult to find in the UK for me which is why I have Corsair. For a motherboard I personally use a MSI X570 Gaming Edge Wifi. I didn't get B550 as they had not been released when I bought my X570. It was also an open box from CCL for £110.00 so a bargain at the time. Its a solid board at a good price. 

 

Now like Quoi87 said its nice to have a NVME. I have a Gen 4 1tb model with my OS and games on the same drive and it boots up super fast. Actual mission loading times in DCS though, no real difference over a regular Sata SSD. So you could save money there. I only bought as again I found it for £90 on the Ebay. 

 

As for a graphics card, I use a 2080ti for the vram. My brother has a 3070 and my 2080ti performs better in DCS especially over PG and Syria. Only making the suggestion as an idea. A used EVGA 2080ti with warranty left over would perform better in DCS. I get 5-10 fps more than my brothers 3070. I dont use VR though I use 4k with Track IR. I say EVGA as I believe they have a transferable warranty should you need it. In an ideal scenario I would save on the CPU, and mobo and buy a 3080 if you can find one. 

 

All this is only advise based on my own 4k experience with DCS. At the end of the day its your rig, your money and your the only one that needs to be happy with it. Just remember synthetic tests on reviews don't translate smoothly into DCS performance. I found the balance between my 5600x, 3200 DDR4 and 2080ti perfect for 4k in DCS. The only change I would make is a Nvidia 3080 if I could find one. It took some time to get my rig right to be able to land at Dubai or Ramut David in Syria while still maintaining 4k@60hz vsync at high/ultra settings. 

 

 

I understand your choice of the Corsair RAM, I was lucky to get my hands on a kit that is now out of stock at least with my provider but it is not the only one with those specs, and there is little to chose between the Corsair and G.SKILL kits at this level, there are B.Die CL 14/1 rank Corsair kits.

B-Die Finder

 

For one, I'm a believer in optimization for the simple reason that I don't have the luxury of wasting money on top-end gear that might or might not work well together, I have to get my all system  running at its optimum and I have to say that having to send back my HP Reverb G2 for a refund proved to be a blessing because I was able to pruchase this RAM kit.

 

The EVGA 2080ti is a good option for a second hand GPU, but even at CEX, second hand they still sell for £800.00, at this price, I'd rather wait for a RADEON 6800 to be available and sell them my 1080Ti back, they would buy from me for £331.00, which is nice and would cut the price of a new RADEON nearly by half.

 

For the GPU make, I prioritize the same way, with Smart Access Memory in mind, since both NVIDIA and AMD write specific drivers for their systems I'll make sure my GPU is fully compatible at this level.

 

We agree on storage speed too, M2 slot, it's working a lot faster for gaming and page files.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Thinder

[Bossco82]

I know what you mean mate. Most of my kit is eBay specials to be honest. Open box, returns or slightly used parts that come boxed as new. So I optimise in a different way. My 5600x is the only new part I have and it came from Scan. I was saving every penny I could this year to put aside the pennies for a 3080 or a 6800xt.

I had the luck of buying a MSI 6800xt this month, sadly as I use a 50" TV at 4k they have a problem using HDMI connections at that resolution, lots of black screens and crashes. In the end I sent it back for a refund. I am not an AMD, Intel or Nvidia fan I just buy what works at the time. For me there are too many worrying reports regarding the 6800xt right now. If they die down before a Nvidia 3080 comes into stock I will try again and re-purchase a 6800xt. Like you I like the appeal of 16gb with SAM. If not I will go for a 3080. 

I tried VR but I get motion sickness and could not get comfortable with it. So I use 4k with track ir. 

 

As for the memory your G Skill is far superior to mine. My Corsair kit was about £130.00 used on eBay not bad for 32gb, it also reports as SK Hynix in CPUz as I think its a later kit. It will overclock to 3600mhz but wont use tighter timings than C16 18 18 36 @ 3200mhz.  It works though and as long as I have 60fps to use vsync I am happy. I use it at 3200mhz as it makes no difference to DCS or any other game I have.