draconus Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 29 minutes ago, stingray77 said: Another thought from my side (don't know of I have done this, yet) is binding "AP emergency disengage" to the stick's lever (as per real life) and see if the "weirdo-trim" goes back to normal by triggering that one... No, it just disengages all AP modes, DLC and roll/pitch SAS. There is no trim reset. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray77 Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 Understand - I thought AP steering inputs might have been shown as trim inputs..... Hum... Windows 10 64bit, Intel Core i7 10700KF CPU @ 3.8GHz, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 8GB. 1TB SSD, VKB Gunfighter III F-14 Stick, Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle, Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 with Pro Clip, Logitech G510 Keyboard, Logitech Performance MX Mouse, Sony KD-55X8005C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, stingray77 said: I thought AP steering inputs might have been shown as trim inputs Yes, AP/AFCS does change the trim if needed but disengaging it does not reset the trim. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray77 Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 Not too familiar with AP (yet) - so what actually does "disengage" trigger, then? No FURTHER AP inputs? Windows 10 64bit, Intel Core i7 10700KF CPU @ 3.8GHz, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 8GB. 1TB SSD, VKB Gunfighter III F-14 Stick, Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle, Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 with Pro Clip, Logitech G510 Keyboard, Logitech Performance MX Mouse, Sony KD-55X8005C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, stingray77 said: Not too familiar with AP (yet) - so what actually does "disengage" trigger, then? No FURTHER AP inputs? I already told you what "emergency AP disengage" does. Normally disengage AP means turn off the AP master switch - no AP is working anymore, so no automatic trim changes. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 1 hour ago, stingray77 said: Yeah, good point (although a lot more pita when needing to trim and having to fiddle around with another modifier)... Yes, but the purpose of this is just to confirm whether or not it is the POV switch ghosting and applying trim input. It could also be the issue you and I are facing are separate as well and not related to each other. At the moment I'm just trying to narrow down what the cause is, and that's where I came up with the modifier idea. It will either confirm that it's that one particular input, or otherwise it will exclude it completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray77 Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 @ draconus: Thanks, please let me clarify my question: what happens when AP is disengaged...? I guess: "nothing" in terms of "new"/additional steering inputs! My question may sound silly, but is it like disengaging Cruise Control in a car? (If you disengage, everything returns back to "zero" - so if you are not on the trottle, the car decelates...) Then, if AP does not trigger any additional steering inputs, would that not mean everything goes back to "zero" here as well? As: no further pitch up, but remaining at the position at disengageent of AP -> then RCtrl+Enter should show trim centered, or not? That was what I was coming from..... @ Dangerzone: Fully clear and I will definitely give that a try as well - I was just thinking of this problem occurring only now and then, and for the rest of the time, adjusting trim would be more hassle...... Windows 10 64bit, Intel Core i7 10700KF CPU @ 3.8GHz, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 8GB. 1TB SSD, VKB Gunfighter III F-14 Stick, Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle, Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 with Pro Clip, Logitech G510 Keyboard, Logitech Performance MX Mouse, Sony KD-55X8005C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 57 minutes ago, draconus said: AP/AFCS does change the trim if needed but disengaging it does not reset the trim. Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray77 Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 Thanks, mate! Your support is much appreciated! Windows 10 64bit, Intel Core i7 10700KF CPU @ 3.8GHz, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 8GB. 1TB SSD, VKB Gunfighter III F-14 Stick, Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle, Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 with Pro Clip, Logitech G510 Keyboard, Logitech Performance MX Mouse, Sony KD-55X8005C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) OK - an update... I can confirm in my instance it is a ghost VKB input. I just wittnessed via the VKB software POV1 and 2 both pushing down at the same time when I wasn't touching them (I was playing with other buttons) - and then after a few seconds they went back to center. I've done a recalibration, removed and reinserted both the grip and the cable and have ran diagnostics. It's showing the occasional 'blip', so I've created a thread over at VKB in regards to the issue I'm having. Again not sure if it's related to the same as yours or not - but it's sounding very suspicious. I'd suggest doing some tests outside of DCS in VKB software to see if you can find any anomalies too. Edit: I also just realised that there is new firmware so I've just updated as well. Edited April 22, 2021 by Dangerzone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray77 Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 Thanks A LOT, mate! From your thread in the VKB-forum it looks like you are so much more familiar with the DevConf-software than I am - but I will try to repeat your test/findings for my set-up... Guess we'll hear/read from each other ion that forum, then! 1 Windows 10 64bit, Intel Core i7 10700KF CPU @ 3.8GHz, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 8GB. 1TB SSD, VKB Gunfighter III F-14 Stick, Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle, Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 with Pro Clip, Logitech G510 Keyboard, Logitech Performance MX Mouse, Sony KD-55X8005C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerzone Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Good luck mate. I'm not overly familiar with the software but just did some digging and playing around. Got no idea if the blips on the error could be indicative of an issue, just figure the more info they have to work through the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray77 Posted April 22, 2021 Author Share Posted April 22, 2021 Just added an answer/comment to your thread over there... Hope someone will listen... Unfortunately I haven't received much feedback to my own thread... No clue if by all possibilities this might be hardware related or software-related to DCS or whatever makes VKB "go"... Windows 10 64bit, Intel Core i7 10700KF CPU @ 3.8GHz, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 8GB. 1TB SSD, VKB Gunfighter III F-14 Stick, Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle, Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 with Pro Clip, Logitech G510 Keyboard, Logitech Performance MX Mouse, Sony KD-55X8005C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray77 Posted April 27, 2021 Author Share Posted April 27, 2021 (edited) Just to share this bit: VKB cannot - at this point - find this (the above and/or my problem with "Jeser fiddling with A/A weapons" - see other thread) being related to hardware... My roadmap now is: - testing my Virpil/TM WH instead of the VKB-stick - if the prob goes away, that's a clear sign it MUST be the VKB-stick. Then: - testing with VKB's DevCfg-Software running parallely to DCS - if I see my problem appear in DCS, switch to DevCfg (maybe I'll need to work with two screens for a quick glimpse instead of having to pause and AltTab to DevCfg) and check if the "testing board" shows any button lighting up - THAT would indicate a ghost! IF the ghost materializes I myself can check if it goes away by doing without the extension and/or attaching the grip centered (currently I have it attached off-center)..... We'll see - but for now, I guess, I'll just have to compile more "data". Edited April 27, 2021 by stingray77 Windows 10 64bit, Intel Core i7 10700KF CPU @ 3.8GHz, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 8GB. 1TB SSD, VKB Gunfighter III F-14 Stick, Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle, Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 with Pro Clip, Logitech G510 Keyboard, Logitech Performance MX Mouse, Sony KD-55X8005C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocker Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 @stingray77, by all means, keep us posted :-). I'm currently fondling with the idea of getting the VKB F-14 grip for my Warthog, but this kind of issue could be a no-no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray77 Posted April 28, 2021 Author Share Posted April 28, 2021 (edited) Willdo - sure! I am still at it... Hope to do more testing over the weekend... On a quick hop (Case I) yesterday evening, I found Sidewinders miraculously becoming active on approach to the carrier (see my other thread) - checked the "in-sim-stick" showing the weapons-selector in SW without me having touched it / without my "real-life-stick" having the weapons-selector in SW! - paused and switched to DevCfg running in backgound and the button was NOT active. I understand - as it is a switch and not a momentary button - that that one should light up in the testing, and not the "weapons off"-switch (as was the case)! That should suggest, my prob is more DCS-related than a VKB-thing! BUT: you sure know, that a VKB-F-14-stick won't be possible to be fitted to the WH-base! You will nee the full Gunfighter-F-14-combo, then... If you want to attach an F-14-grip to the WH, go for the Virpil! Edited April 28, 2021 by stingray77 Windows 10 64bit, Intel Core i7 10700KF CPU @ 3.8GHz, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 8GB. 1TB SSD, VKB Gunfighter III F-14 Stick, Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle, Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 with Pro Clip, Logitech G510 Keyboard, Logitech Performance MX Mouse, Sony KD-55X8005C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray77 Posted April 28, 2021 Author Share Posted April 28, 2021 (edited) That's another story, but allow me to give you my personal opinion of a comparison of both grips/sticks (I have them both): VKB-pros: - 1/1 copy of (the real thing?) at least the one Heatblur was using - (far) better "button-feel" than Virpil - better "stick-feel" with their springs-cam-setup - at least on a 200mm extension as I have it (running on 2x 50-springs each and avia-cams) - DLC working as axis instead of buttons (as is the case with Virpil when used on the WH-base) - "nicer" coolie hat (Virpil is "roundish") and black weapons selector switch (Virpil: red) Virpil-pros: - in my view better/more realistic material used - may in my view even feel and look more original than VKB - better (appearing) /more robust weapons selector switch material - nice "glow-in-the-dark" arrows and dot on the trim coolie - more flexibility in terms of exchanging grips (to me the VKB-system appears more arkward when wanting to change grips) But: since I received them, I only tried the VKB (it arrived faster than the Virpil) in action - need to try out the Virpil to say something on its in-sim-qualities. And: it's just my two cents and personal opinion! Edited April 28, 2021 by stingray77 2 Windows 10 64bit, Intel Core i7 10700KF CPU @ 3.8GHz, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 8GB. 1TB SSD, VKB Gunfighter III F-14 Stick, Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle, Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 with Pro Clip, Logitech G510 Keyboard, Logitech Performance MX Mouse, Sony KD-55X8005C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocker Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 4 hours ago, stingray77 said: BUT: you sure know, that a VKB-F-14-stick won't be possible to be fitted to the WH-base! You will nee the full Gunfighter-F-14-combo, then... If you want to attach an F-14-grip to the WH, go for the Virpil! Hell, I mixed both manufacturers again... Sorry, shipmate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray77 Posted April 29, 2021 Author Share Posted April 29, 2021 No worries - my pleasure... Windows 10 64bit, Intel Core i7 10700KF CPU @ 3.8GHz, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 8GB. 1TB SSD, VKB Gunfighter III F-14 Stick, Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle, Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 with Pro Clip, Logitech G510 Keyboard, Logitech Performance MX Mouse, Sony KD-55X8005C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Jaeger Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 Without knowing the Virpil....The only argument that would speak for said one is, that you can select the Sidewinder Station, which doesn't work for the VKB. Ever since I installed the VKB Stick, I never looked back at the TM. It's sitting in the corner now and collects Dust....such a night and day difference in performance.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray77 Posted April 29, 2021 Author Share Posted April 29, 2021 Right, the SW station-select is another pro of the Virpil... But what difference in performance do you mean? Except for the "mushy" TM WH (the grip alone being very heavy, that one on a 200mm extension was always was very soft to "throw around" - not so the light VKB with double 50-springs and appropriate cams), I don't see much difference... I never was much a fan of the TM T.A.R.G.E.T-software to program/assign buttons and needing to run before the sim, but I understand that binding buttons through the DCS in-sim Controls renders that unnecessary. And VKB's DevCfg, too, is a program/tool that requires a university degree to see through....... Windows 10 64bit, Intel Core i7 10700KF CPU @ 3.8GHz, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 8GB. 1TB SSD, VKB Gunfighter III F-14 Stick, Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle, Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 with Pro Clip, Logitech G510 Keyboard, Logitech Performance MX Mouse, Sony KD-55X8005C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Lt_Jaeger said: Without knowing the Virpil....The only argument that would speak for said one is, that you can select the Sidewinder Station, which doesn't work for the VKB. I'm curious... but the SP/PH select works, right? Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt_Jaeger Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 I think there is a huge difference in precision of the vkb base compared to the warthog. I tried to remedies some of it by modding /greasing the gimbal and stuff of the tm stick, but the vkb is just way better constructed and precise out of the box than the WH will ever be. 2 minutes ago, draconus said: I'm curious... but the SP/PH select works, right? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingray77 Posted April 29, 2021 Author Share Posted April 29, 2021 Yup, the VKB does have a button incorporated in/added to SP/PH allowing to switch between Sparrow and Phoenix. But there's no such button when selecting SW to switch between stations... Virpil does have that... Okay, the WH never gave me much grief in precision, then, but I see that VKB's Gunfighter III registers already slight touches. That's true. Windows 10 64bit, Intel Core i7 10700KF CPU @ 3.8GHz, 16GB DDR4 3200MHz RAM, Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 8GB. 1TB SSD, VKB Gunfighter III F-14 Stick, Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle, Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals, Track IR 5 with Pro Clip, Logitech G510 Keyboard, Logitech Performance MX Mouse, Sony KD-55X8005C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draconus Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, stingray77 said: Yup, the VKB does have a button incorporated in/added to SP/PH allowing to switch between Sparrow and Phoenix. But there's no such button when selecting SW to switch between stations... Virpil does have that... but it's the same button, which also has to be pushed to move from Off to Gun and vice versa Edited April 29, 2021 by draconus Win10 i7-10700KF 32GB RTX3060 Rift S T16000M TWCS TFRP FC3 F-14A/B F-15E CA SC NTTR PG Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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