Difference between Sim and Easy Spitfires ?

[Old Chap]

Hello all. I've acquired these two Spits for the price of one...

I've discovered that there are several different keyboard layout files : Saved games folder and the DCS games folder.

I'm not at all clear as to which aircraft is used when.

In the options pull-down menus, I can modify different inputs for the different Spits but, some options can't be changed, depending on if it's the Sim or the Easy plane - wonderful  

I hope that I'm clear...

Do you know if there is a way of having one "reference" file/layout for both planes or (say yes, please...) does one have to keep a stiff upper lip ?

Thanks.

[grafspee]

You bought only one spitfire, sim and easy are only flight difficulty modes.

You need to select this game flight mode in option to use easy config for plane.

It will only work in SP, i doubt that any MP server is using this option.

Edited May 12, 2021 by grafspee

[Old Chap]

Hello.

Thanks for your reply.

I suppose that an MP server means Multiple Player...

...if so, I would prefer to concentrate all my efforts (noob pilot here) on just one type of Spit, usable in MP.

Which game type mode should I select towards this end ?

 

This is what I find in my Saved games folder :

 

 

I've extracted all the keyboard bindings and have grouped them in an (attached) Excel file.

If you sort on the D column, you may see some conflicting command bindings.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

Spitfire Keyboard Layout Default Sim and Easy.xlsx

[grafspee]

The simplest way to set up controls is to start a mission with spitfire, then go to options and set your inputs. Spitfire CW is version with clipped wings to improve roll rate, i think if you set up controls for one of them, they should be transferred to other version as well.

Just don't select game flight mode in game options.

I always set up controls that way, not having problem ever since.

Another thing which you have to do before, is to wipe all default buttons and axis assigns from your hardware. For example if you have rudder pedals, joystick, throttle, game will assign multiple random inputs, also plenty duplicate assigns which makes total mess at begging, so everything  must be deleted. You left only keyboard,mouse, track ir inputs untouched.

For example in Axis tab you will have your throttle axis assigned to Roll, rudder, and to throttle  You can imagine what would happen when you apply power for take off

Edited May 13, 2021 by grafspee

[Old Chap]

Hello.

Great thanks for your rapid reply.

The keyboard bindings in the attached Excel file are vanilla.

I have the Normandy map DLC and I intend to use that as my starting point.

 

I will follow your advice and clear all default buttons, etc.

After having been "forced" to study the 350+ keybindings, I feel more at ease with the parameter menus     <:0)

 

Just wondering what Squadron Leader Smythe-Jones may have made of this back in 1944...

Spiffing, what ?

 

Thanks.

[grafspee]

7 hours ago, Old Chap said:

 

I will follow your advice and clear all default buttons, etc.

 

Just do not touch keyboard bindings, only for additional hardware like rudder,throttle or stick.

[-0303-]

Indeed. Do not delete keyboard bindings.

I generally don't delete HOTAS bindings either. There's not terribly many. I find it simpler to just scroll down, reassign maybe half a dozen to my favorite HOTAS switches and buttons, disregarding the rest.

 

Analog axis is simpler. The joystick gets the right analog bindings next to always. Just remove the erroneous bindings. I always get pitch and roll besides rudder to the pedals. Go through every binding, make very sure there's no conflicts. Meaning analog pitch, roll, rudder, throttle etc ... each has one and only one binding.

 

When editing keyboard bindings (very few), on pain I avoid deleting anything, I'd rather just "ADD", keeping whatever multi-key combination is default assigned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by -0303-

[Old Chap]

Thanks for your answers.

 

From experience, I fiddle around with input settings the least possible and now, I've been able to set up my HOTAS to my liking - frankly not a big deal really when you understand the logic behind the mechanics.

 

However, I find that my first incursion into this Sim is veeeery laborious and trying.

After having bought the (45€) Spit, I jumped into the cockpit and headed off to the first tutorial - starting the engine.

There are some highly annoying and confusing mis-naming of certain levers, moving parts and wrong pronunciations in the tutorial :

 

Propeller speed control lever (RAF) being called Engine RPM in the KeyBindings menu.

"Close the hood" when it's actually the canopy that is being talked about.

"Check the airelons..." instead of ailerons.

 

Maybe, I'm splitting hairs, but...

 

The worst is - and this is where my next question comes from - is that, when I move to the next lesson - taxiing and takeoff - my tailored HOTAS commands have disappeared, gone, vanished...

I've restarted the tutorials a few times with the same result.

 

Question. Instead of banging my head against the wall, is/are there any way to learn the basics - a coherent mission ? - other than the default training ones ?

 

Thanks. 

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, Old Chap said:

There are some highly annoying and confusing mis-naming of certain levers, moving parts and wrong pronunciations in the tutorial :

It's a British plane, what do you expect from people who can't tell fries from chips? These guys can't even figure out how to pronounce "lieutenant", nevermind "ailerons".  Boost for manifold pressure, hood for canopy, lorry for truck, jumper for sweater...  

[grafspee]

Any one noticed delay between pressing G and landing gear handle being moved ?

This is a time needed for pilot to switch hands in order to move this lever. So pilot just after lift off have to let go stick, use left hand to hold stick, in mean time right hand goes for landing gear handle  after this pilot switch hands again. This is just brilliant idea

[Art-J]

1 hour ago, Old Chap said:

The worst is - and this is where my next question comes from - is that, when I move to the next lesson - taxiing and takeoff - my tailored HOTAS commands have disappeared, gone, vanished...

I've restarted the tutorials a few times with the same result.

 

Question. Instead of banging my head against the wall, is/are there any way to learn the basics - a coherent mission ? - other than the default training ones ?

 

Thanks. 

 

You've got to sort out the wiped out controls issue first, because that shouldn't have happened in a properly working DCS.

 

Do your control bindings still not work in any other missions apart from "training" ones? Try for example one of "Instant" ones - Cold Start or Free Flight.

 

If not, I'd set them up again, not in the mission but in the game options screen, hitting "OK" as often as possible to make sure changes have been saved. I'd then exit the game, go to the Saved Games/Config/Input location and check if your edits got saved properly in both "SpitfireLFMkIX" and "SpitfireLFMkIXCW" folders. They should - if they didn't - just copy the content from one to the other (make sure you copy the right one  ). In the end, both folders should have your custom bindings in them.

[Old Chap]

Back then in those lonely days, the only american accents that were heard was (probably) at the flicks.

When blokes like Reggie or Alf climbed into their kites, they  knew that their chips were down, their greatest fear was being fried alive...

I doubt they had much truck for niceties about transatlantic differences to the english language.

They were RAF bods and spoke RAF.

 

As you point out, the Spitfire is a British aircraft.

1940s + Britain + RAF english = British terminology ?

 

Is this the sort of thing that can be glossed over when recreating a simulation ?

English is spoken in many places so, "getting it right" is a daunting task.

 

They must've had a great time in 303 squadron.

 

Toodle pip.

[Old Chap]

5 minutes ago, Art-J said:

You've got to sort out the wiped out controls issue first, because that shouldn't have happened in a properly working DCS.

 

Do your control bindings still not work in any other missions apart from "training" ones? Try for example one of "Instant" ones - Cold Start or Free Flight.

 

If not, I'd set them up again, not in the mission but in the game options screen

My DCS is unmodded 2.5.

My Saved games/DCS folders (extract of) look like this :

 

 

I take note of copying "good" files to another folder and, I think that I'll do that - backups before fiddleing, of course  

If I must, I can re-install DCS.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

[Art-J]

I don't recognize that "InputLayoutsTxt" folder of yours. Never had such thing in my install. Maybe that's the one causing issues? Let's leave it there for now, I was referring to the "Input" location only.

 

Reinstalling? Nah, that's the last resort solution. If I'm not mistaken, reinstalling process doens't affect Saved Games location, so it wouldn't help anyway.

[Weegie]

@Art-J

 

I believe the "InputsLayoutTxt" folder is created and used to store .html lists for your devices if you select the "Make HTML" button on the bottom of the Options page, listing the External devices and keyboard mappings.

 

What that then does is make a list of all the mappings, including the keyboard settings, for all the devices used with that module.

 

I use it as a last line of desperation. Should my inputs all go to hell and I need to start again with a module, at least I know what to map to where and any changes I've made to keyboard inputs too.

 

I've ocassionally experienced all my bindings being "lost" by the game as well, but it's uncommon and quitting and restarting the game restores all to normal for me.

 

It is quite frustrating when it happens. The whole controls binding thing, fragility and ocassional reset by ED or 3rd parties, in DCS is one of the games biggest weaknesses. That said I wouldn't want it simplified like other games, as that would reduce the overall flexibity of what can be achieved with mapping

[Art-J]

^ Nice to know, thanks. I've never used this "Make HTML" function, but I might, just in case!

[Old Chap]

I used the "Make HTML" function and it has enabeled me to make the attached Excel file which is a "sortable" list of all the vanilla keyboard commands.

 

However, my main question still remains unanswered :

 

Which campaign/mission may I use to learn the basics of Spitfire flying without having to recourse to the training missions supplied when I aquired the Spit DLC ?

 

Thanks.

Spitfire Keyboard Layout Default Sim and Easy.xlsx

[-0303-]

If you search there's tons of youtube videos. That's where I went after getting frustrated with the official training missions. Some are listed  in Module Specific Tutorials.

 

The loose controls customizations should not happen.

 

I wonder if it could be the same issue I had with snapviews. Snapviews gets saved with the mission and the saved mission snapviews override the plane associated snapviews that still exist and show up fine in multiplayer. Find what Rudel wrote:

 

This specifically happens in INSTANT MISSIONS also. Unless changed you don't have "your" snapviews in INSTANT MISSIONS.

 

I still don't know what caused snapviews to be saved with missions. I've created any number of missions since then  without having the problem as outlined in that thread again (except for the canned INSTANT MISSION).

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by -0303-

[Art-J]

1 hour ago, Old Chap said:

Which campaign/mission may I use to learn the basics of Spitfire flying without having to recourse to the training missions supplied when I aquired the Spit DLC ?

 

Thanks.

 

Tutorial-wise, there aren't any that I'm aware of. You'll have to rely on reading official Spitfire module manual (to be found in its "Doc" folder), or if you prefer shorter forms - Chuck Owl's guide, to be found in this thread: 

You might search for some youtube vids to see how other folks do it (though habits and tricks which work for one person might not work for the other), then just practice and practice...

 

Spit is the most simple warbird in DCS to operate its systems, but it's also one of most difficult to learn to takeoff, fly and land - be prepared for more frustration to come ;).

Edited May 16, 2021 by Art-J

[-0303-]

On 5/16/2021 at 10:17 AM, -0303- said:

I still don't know what caused snapviews to be saved with missions. I've created any number of missions since then  without having the problem as outlined in that thread again (except for the canned INSTANT MISSION).

 

Spoke to soon. Problem still here. Snapviews gets saved with the mission file (.miz), blocking "core" snapviews saved anywhere else.

 

The fix is as Rudel states, open the .miz file archive with some tool, WinRAR or 7zip and delete the config folder.

 

I still don't get why and when it decides to save snapviews in the miz file. I didn't notice problems for a long while because ... ???, but just now noticed the Bf 109 snapviews was wrong, deleted the config folder inside .miz file and got my preferred snapviews back. How did this NOT happen with the P-51 or  Spitfire? No idea. Maybe it depends on when snapviews are first saved? In multiplayer or offline?

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by -0303-

[grafspee]

I always saves snap views on multiplayer session, it newer worked for me in single-player session, same with key bindings. Always had some problems with it while doing in single player session, solving problem with manually editing files is just meh for me. This problems should not be here at first place.

[Old Chap]

I've had a lot of replies to this post -thanks to all of you.

What comes out of this - as far as I can see - is that the config/input system is a mess, especially for people who are not particularly computer savvy and "just" want a flying simulator, not a course in IT Engineering and file manipulation... 

What a deception, particularly as this course game is very expensive.

I hadn't expected to come across these kind of trying, half-baked issues where there seems to be no clear-cut, precise answer(s).

 

Maybe the InputUserProfiles folder contains my answer.

Maybe.

[DD_Fenrir]

Your clearing of all the default inputs might be the issue with the tutorials here.

 

Given the tutorials reliance on them telling a novice user which action is activated by which key, it is conceivable that ED added a controls override to these tutorial mission files so that rebinding controls doesn't break the tutorial - the tutorial tells you to press "shift-spacebar" but you've rebound it to "x" but don't realise that...

 

Personally, given the complexity of the number of buttons and controls to be mapped in any aircraft I think EDs solution is clear logical and is much improved from, say, 5 years ago - it's infinitely more understandable than some of their competitors control GUIs which are downright disingenuous.

 

Old Chap, if you're online and happy to engage in some multiplayer flying I'd happily spend an eve going over the controls with you and nailing down some of your issues if you would like.

Let me know.

 

 

[Old Chap]

1 hour ago, DD_Fenrir said:

given the complexity of the number of buttons and controls to be mapped in any aircraft

Hello.

I live in (unoccupied) France and am in the GMT + 1 timezone.

I would be very pleased to go over the controls and get information from a vet...

 

As you suggest, the "vanilla" keyboard setup is probably overidden in order to stay coherent with the basic tutorials.

I have no problem with that and, that is why I'm looking for a scenario where I can just jump in, take off, fly and land as I "please", the idea being that practice makes perfect.

It is extremely annoying to have to re-start the whole (basic) tutorial just because I put the stick too far to the right, etc.

 

I also have no problem with making an effort to apprehend and assimilate (and re-map  ha, ha) keyboard/Hotas/mouse commands just as long as...

 

Owned :

Normandy 1944 map

WWII Assets pack

 

Specs :

i7

16 GB RAM

GPU GTX 1080Ti

Hotas X52 Pro

No rudders

No VR

Microphone, yes. Which chat setup is needed ?

Connection Internet - fibre

 

Gamer since 1984 (Amstrad CPC 64)

Ex IT Admin/Tech

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by Old Chap
Adding info.

[DD_Fenrir]

1 hour ago, Old Chap said:

Hello.

I live in (unoccupied) France and am in the GMT + 1 timezone.

I would be very pleased to go over the controls and get information from a vet...

 

As you suggest, the "vanilla" keyboard setup is probably overidden in order to stay coherent with the basic tutorials.

I have no problem with that and, that is why I'm looking for a scenario where I can just jump in, take off, fly and land as I "please", the idea being that practice makes perfect.

It is extremely annoying to have to re-start the whole (basic) tutorial just because I put the stick too far to the right, etc.

 

I also have no problem with making an effort to apprehend and assimilate (and re-map  ha, ha) keyboard/Hotas/mouse commands just as long as...

 

Owned :

Normandy 1944 map

WWII Assets pack

 

Specs :

i7

16 GB RAM

GPU GTX 1080Ti

Hotas X52 Pro

No rudders

No VR

Microphone, yes. Which chat setup is needed ?

Connection Internet - fibre

 

Gamer since 1984 (Amstrad CPC 64)

Ex IT Admin/Tech

 

 

 

Hi OC - PM sent.