Yaw SAS

[Mins]

2 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

Occurs to me then that heading hold should work at any pedal input as long as feet are off and pedals stay where they are, so the current operation is limiting anyone with pedals that have no self centering of using heading hold outside of the +/-9% range that heading hold is engaged and input is taken away from you. 
 

I found out with joystick gremlin that that is how far the dead zone that the “micro switches” are inactivated and heading hold is on. I made a profile to instantly turn off the yaw AP within that range and turn it on outside that range so that you always have SAS/coordination mode, and can turn it off with a switch or turn it on manually when heading hold mode is Desired, I think I’ll start a new thread in wishlist and post my profile there 

 

if you try to get closer to realism, then the logic of the microswitches should not work according to the logic of deviation from the center of the axis. Should be done if there is a change in the axis value. There is a change in the value, which means we keep our feet on the pedals - the autopilot is waiting (does not help). And I will say it again: In reality, no one with active piloting uses SAS Yaw - technically not possible(for this, microswitches are made). But only on the route at will ... Some write false facts, because they do not know the technical part ... Takeoff, landing, combat use without using SAS Yaw is a reality. I myself studied for the Mi-8 technique. I have many familiar pilots Mi-8, Mi-24. I perfectly understand what I'm talking about. I hope the translator didn't lie too much ...

Edited August 12, 2021 by Mins

[Dr_Arrow]

3 hours ago, Mins said:

if you try to get closer to realism, then the logic of the microswitches should not work according to the logic of deviation from the center of the axis. Should be done if there is a change in the axis value. There is a change in the value, which means we keep our feet on the pedals - the autopilot is waiting (does not help). And I will say it again: In reality, no one with active piloting uses SAS Yaw - technically not possible(for this, microswitches are made). But only on the route at will ... Some write false facts, because they do not know the technical part ... Takeoff, landing, combat use without using SAS Yaw is a reality. I myself studied for the Mi-8 technique. I have many familiar pilots Mi-8, Mi-24. I perfectly understand what I'm talking about. I hope the translator didn't lie too much ...

 

This is true for the heading hold mode, however there probably are functions of the YAW SaS when feet are on the pedals like yaw oscillations damping. I agree that microswitches should maybe react to changes in the axis values. 

[Mins]

1 hour ago, Dr_Arrow said:

 

This is true for the heading hold mode, however there probably are functions of the YAW SaS when feet are on the pedals like yaw oscillations damping. I agree that microswitches should maybe react to changes in the axis values. 

Dear Dr_Arrow, you are great for delving into this, but I will tell you at the SAS when the feet on the pedals SAS does not help to keep the course, only the pilot himself. This is how it works on the Mi-8 and on the Mi-24.

[Dr_Arrow]

3 minutes ago, Mins said:

Dear Dr_Arrow, you are great for delving into this, but I will tell you at the SAS when the feet on the pedals SAS does not help to keep the course, only the pilot himself. This is how it works on the Mi-8 and on the Mi-24.

 

Yes Mins, I agree with this, with feet on the pedals heading hold mode is disengaged and the AP does not keep the course only pilot. However with feet on the pedals the AP can still help pilot with yaw oscillations damping.

[Mins]

So that there are no course fluctuations when you are piloting, you must take into account the reactive moment, when you raise up collective, you must press the right pedal, release collective, you must give the left pedal, this is done simultaneously with the collective

10 minutes ago, Dr_Arrow said:

 

Yes Mins, I agree with this, with feet on the pedals heading hold mode is disengaged and the AP does not keep the course only pilot. However with feet on the pedals the AP can still help pilot with yaw oscillations damping.

Yes, if the feet are not on the pedals, this SAS helps to keep the course, And in the simulator it is a great helper!

[Mins]

I repeat, when the feet are on the pedals, SAS Yaw does not work - it does not help to keep the course and does not smooth out fluctuations, SAS is in standby mode

[Mins]

Watch the video I showed again when the pilot puts his feet on the pedals the SAS arrow yaw is centered. This hand indicates the position of the SAS mechanisms. Timing from 7:30

 

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by Mins

[Dr_Arrow]

2 hours ago, Mins said:

Watch the video I showed again when the pilot puts his feet on the pedals the SAS arrow yaw is centered. This hand indicates the position of the SAS mechanisms.

 

Thanks for pointing that out, I get it, however it seems that this is not the case of our DCS Mi-24P Hind, as the SAS arrow is moving even when I have feet on the pedals (I am moving the pedals out of the center position). You can see it in this picture, I am depressing right pedal and you can see that the YAW SAS is moving to the left possibly dampening fluctuations (or something else). 

[Mins]

53 minutes ago, Dr_Arrow said:

 

Thanks for pointing that out, I get it, however it seems that this is not the case of our DCS Mi-24P Hind, as the SAS arrow is moving even when I have feet on the pedals (I am moving the pedals out of the center position). You can see it in this picture, I am depressing right pedal and you can see that the YAW SAS is moving to the left possibly dampening fluctuations (or something else). 

Yes, I talk about this a lot so that you understand how it works in reality and how it works in a simulator(it doesn't work correctly in the simulator), so I fly in the simulator with SAS Yaw turned off, it's more real than the logic in the simulator. In a simulator with Yaw enabled, it is easier to operate. Therefore, choose whatever is convenient for you.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Mins

[Mins]

I'll add: SAS yaw, I sometimes turn it on when I fly a long way. Takeoff, landing ... without SAS Yaw. But again, in the simulator, do as you like, but know how it works in reality.

 

 

I hope that we have covered how SAS yaw works, and it will be useful to you.

Edited August 12, 2021 by Mins

[Eldur]

Well, this is what we'd need to have a close to realistic experience:

 

DCS needs a keybind to take the virtual feet off the pedals and put them back on, the latter also happening as soon as you change the pedals axis through physical input with the possibility to set a deadzone for detecting that input. The keybind ideally would exist both as a toggle and a hold/release mechanism.

 

Then we need rudder pedals with Force Feedback that allows for shifting the force center of the things, just like it works on an FFB stick, even without having the feet on them so they could be moved by the SAS if needed.

 

And the pedals should have photoelectric sensors that can be programmed to either switch the pedals FFB (like it's done with the MS SW FFB2 stick) or be used as button input - so that we can use those for the Mi-8/-24 pedal microswitches.

 

But I could only dream, we don't even seem to get any new decent FFB sticks anytime soon, such a pity! Where are all those great guys of VKB, Virpil, WinWing and even Thrustmaster? We absolutely do need more immersion (pun intended - even though those patents ran out already) in our input hardware. And someone has to start...

[uhntissbaby111]

15 hours ago, Mins said:

 

I hope that we have covered how SAS yaw works, and it will be useful to you.

Thanks for all of your info in this thread! I have learned a lot. Any talk on the Russian forum from the developers about fixing the yaw SAS in the simulator and making it function like in the real helicopter?

[Mins]

2 hours ago, uhntissbaby111 said:

Thanks for all of your info in this thread! I have learned a lot. Any talk on the Russian forum from the developers about fixing the yaw SAS in the simulator and making it function like in the real helicopter?

You are welcome! How it works now suits many, some simply do not turn it on, and if you do the switching logic as in reality, you need to put buttons (microswitches) on the joystick-pedal, but we do not have such devices. I just assigned the command to turn on and off, it suits me perfectly.