Typhoon is to be received Large Area Display (LAD) Cockpit upgrade by 2024

[F-2]

On 12/13/2021 at 12:17 AM, Mr_Burns said:

When I started work the EFA2000 had CRT displays, children that is Cathode Ray Tube (Cathode-ray tube) an old technology which was not more advanced than the first production televisions I think, perhaps a few less valves!

We upgraded them to AMLCD, Active Matrix LCD.

I have been out of that business for many years no so not sure if they are still the same Smiths Industries (GE Aviation) units or something different, I do recall hearing much smaller and therefore lighter units were developed but perhaps someone else may know.

Now they are looking at touch screen tech, single wide displays, awesome!!

By any chance do recall the resolution of the AMLCD screens?

[Spectre11]

575x575 pixels

On 8/4/2022 at 12:42 PM, Zahnatom said:

maybe also good sound design. i could imagine there being some audio feedback unless thats too distracting ofc.

A visual feedback would be less distracting I guess. Like on the touch screen of smartphones, some waterdrop like symbology. Maybe only actioning the touch when the finger leaves the surface, to allow for corrections, in case you missed the right spot at the first time. Enlarged screens will surely help and maybe some HOTAS support as well.

[Rick Mave]

I like it. Bet you that changes the entire workflow on the aircraft for the better.

[Rick50]

 

The downside is that such a display "looks like azz".

The upside  is that one button press could make the display look AMAZING.

Another button could make a super-informative display with ALL the situational awareness you'd ever want.

Another could give you a tuned set of displays appropriate to specific moments during a mission profile.

Best of all, it probably has a LOT of pilot-chosen display options to choose from. Nothing stopping anyone from making the entire dash look like an early retro EF2000... DID people, call yer office!

[Mapi]

If we wait another 2 years, then please do that straight away:

Large Area Display (LAD) Cockpit

[Mateo]

To be honest, if a step forward will lead us to such cockpits, I will make one step back or even two to WW2 series of airplanes... 

 

[Rick50]

On 12/13/2021 at 10:43 AM, Dragon1-1 said:

I don't think I like the "flying Ipad" trend. The loss of tactile feedback could be a problem in long run. Admittedly, they probably also have full control by HOTAS cursor, so even if touchscreen stops reacting to touch, you still have some way of interacting with it, but still, I'd worry about reliability of those things. If it's one giant display, if it quits, you've basically lost all flight instruments. I really hope the display system isn't a single point of failure for the aircraft.

 

Hmm... if losing the giant display, not only have you lost ALL your instruments, ALL you tactical situational awareness, ALL your nav data... ALL your stores data, all weapon data, all threat displays, all datalink displays... you'd be resigned to just RTB if that's even a possibility at that time. 

 

...  but you've also lost MOST of your buttons and controls that aren't on the HOTAS system...

 

I'd almost advocate for a second redundant screen behind the one that just failed and ejected... but I don't really see that happening. 

 

I guess you'd be down to just HMD and HOTAS if your main display dash fails...

[Dragon1-1]

1 hour ago, Rick50 said:

you'd be resigned to just RTB if that's even a possibility at that time. 

If you can make it, you'd do it by luck, and probably not in IMC, because without the LAD, actually selecting the point you want to fly to and enabling ILS is probably difficult, if possible at all.

I'd hope that there are HOTAS options to, at least, get the aircraft home if the LAD suddenly decides to go blank. Losing tactical systems isn't too bad, because you're not really fit to fight if you lose even one MFD in a more traditional cockpit, it's not quite as bad, but you generally want to get home ASAP anyway. The biggest problem with LAD, IMO, is loss of engine instruments (particularly fuel flow) and the fuel indicators, robbing you of all means of endurance calculation. Other than that, the HMD can display enough information to keep the aircraft flying mostly straight and in the right direction, if you can select the home plate by HOTAS.

[Rick50]

 

Modern FADEC should be able to give you set programs for endurance, or cruise efficiency per mile on  their own without pilot intervention. Particularly for a super advanced fighter of today. Have a solid button on the side console, press and hold for 3 seconds and it illuminates a color to indicate it's mode, different color for another mode.

Modern nav systems, should be able to get you right to the runway, much like a cruise missile, and the data from SIDS STARS systems. Precision GPS could do the same job as an ILS, and or ground personel on a data link could select the ILS frequencies for you. Or maybe you have a dozen preprogrammed ILS freqs, and a wheel knob on side console to pick one. When it shows in your HMD, you are golden.

One auto nav mode might be a stealthy exfiltration back the way you came, thus not compromising the missions' return path. A different mode might be "fast and direct as possible" in case an interceptor is on it's way to  you. A third mode might be "sip fuel limp mode" for maximum fuel efficiency if you are leaking or just low on fuel, might be enough to get home, or at least enough to get to a CSAR pickup point!

Although the  pilot wouldn't see it, the data link could come in very handy in such a situation: other airforce personnel could monitor your sensors and systems, and give commands to the pilot, or command systems and sensors directly. It would suck in many ways, delays due to network, but it could save the pilot, the airframe, ... maybe even save the mission. Think of it like the pilot is now just a passenger mostly, but now has a dozen guardian angels flying with you, watching over you, setting up AIM-260 shots, doing IFF for you, monitoring ground and air threats, steering your headings, getting  your HARM or JDAM set up and fired.  Think of it like: this WAS a manned fighter, now it's mostly a UCAV or "loyal wingman" that happens to have a human in it, with eyeballs for a HOBS shot and landing short final. The caveat is that this would need a monster of a datalink with super low latency, a dozen ground personnel that are super competent in a team, in enough numbers, who don't already have many dozens of jobs and tasks in time sensitive situations.

Another possibility: if helmet mounted displays ever get full color in insanely high resolution, maybe all that data could be just displayed in helmet... lower quality than the dash display that has now failed, but maybe good enough to fully continue the mission.

This does all make me wonder about modern airliners though... if such a screen fails mid-flight.

 

Edited Monday at 03:56 PM by Rick50

[Dragon1-1]

On 7/14/2025 at 5:52 PM, Rick50 said:

Precision GPS could do the same job as an ILS, and or ground personel on a data link could select the ILS frequencies for you.

It can't if it's being jammed. This is another crucial failure point of many modern systems. This is also the issue with using the datalink: what if the enemy manages to jam it? GPS jamming is fairly straightforward, it's easy to degrade it to the point it can't be used for landing or PGM delivery. With datalinks, it depends, but reliability of a high bandwidth system in a hostile EW environment will be suspect.

All the other suggestions rely on another system that would have to be added (and cost money). I would propose a minimum fuss, minimum problems solution: display the data in simplified form on the HMD. You don't need a full color high resolution map, just enough to get the jet home. Fuel and remaining time could be displayed by pressing a button, that alone would improve the situation somewhat. That alone would allow proper fuel planning. In general, in case of an electronics failure, you want to give control to the pilot, not to more electronics.

On 7/14/2025 at 5:52 PM, Rick50 said:

This does all make me wonder about modern airliners though... if such a screen fails mid-flight.

An airliner is in a better situation because it doesn't rely on a single screen. Having two crewmembers, it usually would have at least two displays. This gives it a basic measure of redundancy a fighter LAD lacks.

[Q3ark]

Don’t you think the design teams and engineers have been through all this? It’s fun to imagine what would I do in their shoes but these people know what they are doing. When is the last time you heard of a screen failing in an aircraft? This isn’t new technology any more. 

[Dragon1-1]

That it isn't new doesn't mean it can't fail. In most aircraft, an MFD failing isn't a huge deal, so it doesn't go in the news, they just fix it before the next flight. The LAD hasn't been around for very long, there are probably some contingencies for a total failure, but I'm not sure how well they'll work in practice. Of course, it also helps that fighters are flown much less than airliners, when we consider the total flight hours.

I'm a bit worried that the engineers, while they know what they're doing, might have different priorities than we'd hope. "It's cheaper that way" mentality had caused a few aviation accidents over the years. The LAD is nice because it's cost-effective, you've got one screen, no buttons and minimum maintenance requirements. Of course, the F-35 has an ejection seat, which probably affected the calculation as well.