Having problem with INS bombing

[ggoodavish]

I have the latest updates for DCS (2,73).  I am trying to learn INS bombing.   From the tutorial, and Chucks guide, it says that when approaching your IP, to put the diamond over the IP and do an INS update.   I did that, and pressed the REC button on the PCN.  It says that when you fly over the IP, you should then have the diamond disappear on the HUD, and get the steering wings on the FPM, to guide you to the offset waypoint.   Mine does not do this.   The diamond remains, and I fly over the IP, and I get no steering indications to guide me to the Offset.   I followed the tutorial exactly in setting up the offset, and my DEST in the PCN is on waypoint 2.   So I am either doing something wrong, or INS bombing mode is amiss.   I do have the TAS, RS and PI buttons, as well as the BF1 buttons, pushed on the PCA, and my radar and radar altimeter is on.   Help!

[Galinette]

The tutorials are maybe outdated, but you are doing some mistakes too. You will not get steering cues with BF1, as this is CCIP-PI. Steering cues are only shown in CCRP-PI

Also (and this is not up to date in tutorials) you should never use REC when doing IP bombing. Just designate IP and wait overfly. 
If you want to try CCRP PI, there is a mission included where the waypoint and offset (BAD) are all set up, you just have to configure your PCA and PPA, WSC forward, designate the IP (little bridge) and follow cues! INS starts with drift so the reticle is quite far from the bridge, for more challenge.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Kercheiz

[ggoodavish]

Why would RAZBAM make a training mission for INS bombing with BF1 bombs, if it won't work properly, since they are CCIP?  Very confusing!

[Galinette]

You can have PI with CCIP! But you won’t have the wing cues .

Also, all the training missions do not reflect the recent AG changes, they are being updated. But the CCRP-PI instant mission definitely does work well.

[ggoodavish]

My HSI needle did not change at the IP point.  It simply reversed and pointed back at the IP

[myHelljumper]

3 hours ago, ggoodavish said:

My HSI needle did not change at the IP point.  It simply reversed and pointed back at the IP

 

Hi, what command did you use to designate the IP ?

 

You need to use the "Magic Slave / AG Designate / INS Position Update" command when the diamond is on the IP point. Then the symbology should guide you to the target point.

[ggoodavish]

I did use the Nav Update/Magic unlock button with the diamond in the HUD over the IP.  However, I did not see any guidance cues in the HUD toward the offset target point, and as I said, the HSI double needle just pointed back at the IP.  What cues should there be, and where would I see them?  This is for the training mission with the CCIP IP mode.

[TLTeo]

Unless things have changed since the last time I flew the Mirage:

 

The Nav Update/Magic Unlock button on the stick is used to update the INS when overflying a point, to unlock the target the Magic is looking at, and to toggle through its search modes.

The A2G Designate/Magic Slave button on the throttle is used to designate targets in a2g modes, to slave the Magic seeker to the radar, and to use the radar to update the INS.

 

Their names are almost identical and both are used to update the nav system in different ways, which makes it super confusing, but it sounds like you are using the first instead of the second.

Edited August 17, 2021 by TLTeo

[ggoodavish]

Ok, after designating with the second method, do I need to press the validate button on PCN to have HSI point to offset BAD?

[TLTeo]

There is only one method to designate an air to ground target, the button on the stick has nothing to do with that. As far as I understand, the HUD symbology should change automatically after you designate to guide you to your target. I don't know about the HSI but frankly, I don't see why it would be useful to look at it when, at that stage of a mission, you really should focus on what's outside of the cockpit and using the HUD as a primary instrument.

[myHelljumper]

3 hours ago, ggoodavish said:

Ok, after designating with the second method, do I need to press the validate button on PCN to have HSI point to offset BAD?

 

You can do it after the attack if you want.

After you designated the IP, the fix is saved and is used by the system, after the pass you have the choice to apply the fix permanently or discard it.

[ggoodavish]

Ok, my question is, after I do the INS update on the IP, what do I need to do so steering cues on HUD and the HSI will point me to the offset BAD (TARGET), after I pass the IP?

[Galinette]

 

56 minutes ago, ggoodavish said:

Ok, my question is, after I do the INS update on the IP, what do I need to do so steering cues on HUD and the HSI will point me to the offset BAD (TARGET), after I pass the IP?

 

Nothing. The cues appear as soon as you have designated the IP with "Magic Slave/AG Designate/INS Position Update", and the HSI points to the BAD immediately.

The designator stays there until you overfly the IP. You can use it for refining IP update by pressing again the same button.

 

As soon as you overfly, designator is hidden, and steering cues stay there.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Kercheiz

[Galinette]

Just look at this example:

 

 

[ggoodavish]

I understand that is for corporate.  How about ccip, like the training mission on ins bombing?

[Galinette]

CCIP training is maybe not yet updated.

 

It works the same way, but you won't have steering cues, only the classical route deviation "house" and target cross, like in NAV, to guide you to the BAD.

And if I remember right the CCIP piper is shown only after overfly.

[ggoodavish]

Ok, I had been using the wrong INS update button.  When I used the Magic unlock/AG Designate/INS update button, it all worked beautifully.  Thanks for the help guys.  I LOVE this plane!

[ivo]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:09 PM, Kercheiz said:

Just look at this example:

 

hi could you post the mission and write all data to insert for IP and BAD waypoint for make practice?

 

[Galinette]

9 minutes ago, ivo said:

 

It’s the mission shipped with the module!

everything is pre entered in the INS

[ivo]

thank a lot Kercheiz bye

[ivo]

HI but I have to use weapon system CMD/FWD for show the diamond  or use Magic Slave/AG Designate/INS Position Update ?

can please post a very simple mission with all parameter insert ?

[Galinette]

Press System CMD FWD to show the diamond,

Press AG Designate to designate the IP (bridge in the mission)

The diamond will stay until you overfly IP in case you want to re-designate for improving precision.

[Frederf]

Here's an example mission to practice on and a track demonstrating.

Procedure

• Active pause ON

INS Preparation:

1. INS parameter dL/dG
2. 1or7 N 11118 INS
3. 3or9 E 14024 INS
4. INS parameter dALT
5. 3or9 + 95 INS

Weapon Preparation:

1. BL1 select
2. PI select
3. NB 08
4. DIST. 02
5. Fuze INST
6. Weapon command FWD

• Active pause OFF

INS update:

1. Fly radar diamond to reference landmark (control tower)
2. Press Magic slave button on throttle

Attack:

1. Follow navigation cues to align with target
2. Master ARM
3. At toss range select afterburner and pull into loft while maintaining lateral aim
4. Hold trigger before solution is reached

Train M2K M82 PI.miz M2K PI Attack.trk

[ivo]

Thank Frederf today will try bye my friend 

[ivo]

Compared to the beginning the procedure has changed slightly, however the bombing with this procedure remains very inaccurate ....