Hi fidelity AI for different time periods...

[deltahawk2020s]

OK, this may have been done to death elsewhere...but it seems to me, at times...that the DCS world can be somewhat empty or missing objects that are relevant to time periods in question.  I know we have the WW2 Assets pack for ww2 buffs etc...but we seem to be lacking in AI for say the 50s, 60s, 70s for example.  Mods I am aware of, I fly the A4 and it is excellent.  However, when one goes searching for plane sets and ground objects to match, the choice does seem rather limited, I am thinking F8 crusaders (US naval aviation 1960s) plus their OPFOR  equivalents etc.  That these AI have the FM and textures to match their DCS module stable mates..Thats one example.  The Korean era is another ..we have the Mig 15, we have the sabre...but as far as I am aware we dont have official AI modules to round things out....If there are I am not aware of it.  If anyone out there can point me to downloadable, high quality, believable AI, that cover the 50s, 60s, 70s, thanks in advance.  

[Northstar98]

Sounds like something for this thread.

But yes, DCS suffers from a problem that it's kinda a mile wide but an inch deep, in that we have modules spanning 70-80 years, but pick any one decade and you'll be hardpressed to find assets from REDFOR and BLUFOR, as well as a map that fits nicely together.

I'll copypasta my breakdown from that thread:

• Early WWII has a single aircraft and absolutely nothing else (I-16)
• Late WWII is possibly the most fleshed out era in DCS with:
  • A fairly equal number of peer-to-peer BLUFOR and REDFOR modules, done to a similar level of quality, with more on the way.
  • 2 dedicated maps, with a 3rd on the way (though hardly anything for that map as of yet).
  • A dedicated asset pack, with plenty of vehicles and air defences, of course there's stuff missing (especially ships, but also a few US air defences)
  • The era where numerous new technologies came to first:
    • VT AA shells.
    • Completely overhaulled damage model.
    • Torpedoes (both aerial, surface and submerged launch, even if the latter 2 are somewhat broken).
    • Submerging submarines.
    • AI improvements wrt. ditching.
• Early Cold War (1946 - 1960):
  • For full-fidelity modules you've got the F-86F, MiG-15bis, MiG-19P and a G.91R on the way.
  • Only ground units are exclusively REDFOR, with 2 air defences units (AZP S-60 and the ZSU-57-2), 1 tank (PT-76B) and 1 APC (MT-LB). That's it, there's absolutely nothing else apart from what you can recycle from WWII.
  • No map.
  • No naval assets.
• Mid Cold War (1961 to 1975):
  • Only has 3 full-fidelity modules, 1 of them a trainer (F-5E-3, MiG-21bis and L-39C), though there is also the F-8J on the way.
  • Maybe a couple of AI aircraft (F-4E).
  • Quite a few REDFOR air defences, with the S-75M/SA-2d, S-125M/SA-3b, the upcoming S-200V/SA-5b, the 9K33/SA-8a and the 9K31/SA-9a. There is also Rapier (though without Blindfire for the UK). We have a couple of REDFOR vehicles, though hardly any BLUFOR vehicles (can only think of the Land Rovers, maybe the Chieftain Mk.7/L and the Leopard 1A3), there are however a few REDFOR vehicles (T-55A, BMP-1, BMD-1, BTR-RD, BRDM-2).
  • No map.
• Late Cold War (1976 to 1989):
  • Only the Mirage 2000C as a full fidelity module (and only just, our 2000C is 1989 at the earliest), though there is an early F-14A (suitable for pre 1994 missions) in the works, as well as an A-6E (variant depending, TRAM and WCSI fit here) and an A-7E. There is also a 9-12 MiG-29 in a 'hope-to' state. Here is where we also have the C-101, L-39ZA and the Mi-8MTV-2 and (without 9M120), the Mi-24P too (though it has Lipa removed). Finally, there's the Christen Eagle 2 and Yak-52 (though both unarmed).
  • All of the FC3 aircraft apart from the F-15C, and if you exclude R-77, the 9-13S MiG-29S.
  • There's a few more AI aircraft (mostly REDFOR - Tu-22M3, MiG-23MLD, MiG-25, Su-17M4).
  • The majority of air defence systems: MIM-23B I-HAWK PIP Phase 1, Rapier FSA for the UK, Roland 2, Gepard, M163A2 (?) and MIM-72G for BLUFOR; for REDFOR we've got the 2K12M3/SA-6b, S-300PS/SA-10b, 9K35M3/SA-13, 9K37M1/SA-11, the 9K38/SA-18 (though uses the 9M342 missile of the 9K338/SA-24 from the mid 2000s) and the 9K330/SA-15a.
  • The majority of REDFOR ground vehicles, and a few BLUFOR ground vehicles.
  • 1 map (Caucasus) (?) - though is wholly unsuitable for BLUFOR vs REDFOR Cold War missions.
  • The majority of REDFOR naval assets, but only HB's unreleased Forrestal for BLUFOR.
• 90s:
  • Heatblur's current offerings: the AJS 37 and the current Tomcats (though with LANTIRN the Tomcats are late 90s/early 2000s), there's the J-11A too and there's also possibly the A-6E (depending on what variant HB does) as well as a few more AI aircraft (namely the Tu-160). Here's is also where the Ka-50, Gazelle and the WIP Bo-105PAH-1A1 fits.
  • There's a few more air defences present (MIM-104C Patriot PAC-2, 2K22M/SA-19).
  • Probably the majority of BLUFOR ground vehicles as well as a few more REDFOR.
  • We finally have a map (Caucasus) but it's only really suitable for the 1991-1992 South Ossetia War and the 1992-1993 War in Abkhazia.
  • The remaining REDFOR naval assets (excluding the CAP naval assets, and the Pr. 636 Improved Kilo). There's also the Type 148 Tiger-class [La Combatantte IIA], given that it's a later fit (TRS 3050 Triton-G, Racal Cutlass B1 ESM, Racal Scorpion ECM.
• 2000s:
  • For modules we have the most popular BLUFOR modules: A-10C, F-16CM and the F/A-18C (the F-14A/B reaches into here too). The F-15C fits here, and so does the 9-13S MiG-29S with the R-77, the AH-64D Block II and the MB.339A MLU will also fit here.
  • There's a couple more AI aircraft (namely the F-15E).
  • There are only 3 more air defence systems, that being NASAMS II, the HQ-7b Self-Propelled and the 9K338/SA-24.
  • The rest of the BLUFOR naval assets, as well as the CAP naval assets.
  • As for maps from a purely pedantic perspective, there aren't any that strictly fit here, though most payware terrains could be made to fit around here as well as the Marianas, even if they are generally newer (only one I'm unsure about is Syria).
• 2010s:
  • For modules we have the later A-10C, AV-8B N/A, the Eurofighter Typhoon(?) and the JF-17. There's also the OH-58 and technically the Mi-24P but only due to the removal of L-166, otherwise we would have a Mi-24P from the 90s (though only from 9M120 Ataka, without 9M120 we would have a mid 80s Mi-24P, just missing L-166 - this aircraft is rather unique in that it really hasn't changed much since it was produced, only thing I'm unsure about is engines and countermeasure setup).
  • We have maybe a couple more AI aircraft (namely the Su-34)
  • A few more ground vehicles (LPWS, ZTZ96B, ZBD-04A, T-72B3 and BTR-82A).
  • Here are where the SoH/PG, Syria and Marianas map strictly fit around, though this is arguably more pedantic.
• And finally onto the 2020s:
  • Only the Eurofighter Typhoon (seeing as it's a Luftwaffe Typhoon, but being heavily teased with the MBDA Meteor, which only entered Luftwaffe service in 2021) and absolutely nothing else.

Obviously succeeding decades/eras will carry-over plenty of assets and modules from previous decades/eras, but hopefully you can see the problem.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Northstar98
spelling

[upyr1]

21 hours ago, deltahawk2020s said:

OK, this may have been done to death elsewhere...but it seems to me, at times...that the DCS world can be somewhat empty or missing objects that are relevant to time periods in question.  I know we have the WW2 Assets pack for ww2 buffs etc...but we seem to be lacking in AI for say the 50s, 60s, 70s for example.  Mods I am aware of, I fly the A4 and it is excellent.  However, when one goes searching for plane sets and ground objects to match, the choice does seem rather limited, I am thinking F8 crusaders (US naval aviation 1960s) plus their OPFOR  equivalents etc.  That these AI have the FM and textures to match their DCS module stable mates..Thats one example.  The Korean era is another ..we have the Mig 15, we have the sabre...but as far as I am aware we dont have official AI modules to round things out....If there are I am not aware of it.  If anyone out there can point me to downloadable, high quality, believable AI, that cover the 50s, 60s, 70s, thanks in advance.  

The cold war and naval assets are way under developed. There is some hostility to asset packs- people keep saying they make online games harder to do. Which is why I think we haven't seen another asset pack. 

 

 

 

[Tank50us]

1 hour ago, upyr1 said:

The cold war and naval assets are way under developed. There is some hostility to asset packs- people keep saying they make online games harder to do. Which is why I think we haven't seen another asset pack. 

 

 

 

 

They only make it difficult when it's required to have the pack in order to even play the mission. That said, I wish these packs operated in the same vein as the Super Carrier: In that if you don't have it, you can still place it in the Mission Editor, you can still shoot at it (and it can shoot at you), but lacking it means that certain interactions with it are not allowed (such as landing on the USS George Washington if you lack the SCM). But lacking the WW2 Assets Pack means that I, as a player, cannot even load into the mission unless I have the pack if so much as one dude with a Garand is placed down.

 

So, those wanting to make APs are in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' area: They're screwed if they charge, and the pack is required from then on if an asset from it is placed in the mission, and they're screwed if it's free because then they don't get paid for their hard work.

[Northstar98]

3 hours ago, upyr1 said:

The cold war and naval assets are way under developed. There is some hostility to asset packs- people keep saying they make online games harder to do. Which is why I think we haven't seen another asset pack.

 

All they'd need to do is fix that is to have the units visible in missions, and have basic functionality available (such as a rudimentary damage model, have them shoot at you etc).

 

Just have it so non-owners can't spawn them in their own missions and can't drive them or use their advanced functions.

 

Or, to put it another way; have them work exactly the same as every aircraft module (though those you can at least spawn in your own missions).

Edited October 3, 2021 by Northstar98