later in early access Are the "Sighting Options" fully functional ?

[fjacobsen]

In both the FCR Ground radar mode as well as the Litening Targeting Pod displays, tehre is an OSB called "Sightng Options".

According to the manual, it should be possible to cycle between STP-TGT-OA1-OA2-RP-IP-AP, but it doesn´t seem to work correctly.

I have seen it displayed as TGT and STP, but I cannot cycle pressing the OSB.

With a target designated on the FCR Ground radar display, I can get the Litening Pod to slew to that area by pressing the OSB for Sighting option when it shows TGT.

[Fakum]

I am trying to figure this out as well, once the "stp" is showing on the fcr, I cant get it cycled back to "tgp"?

[QuiGon]

This function is probably not fully implemented yet.

[Fakum]

I agree, but that is not the problem. Its STUCK there, I cant get rid of it to select "TGT" instead

[Frederf]

Sighting points is a complicated system with lots of automatic changes and restrictive conditions. The other F-16 sim which will not be named got it wrong in a big way.

TGT should be the normal choice at least in attack modes. This indicates the sighting point is the target. STP means steerpoint which can be the sighting point in VIP because stpt is not target in that mode. With VRP the options are RP/TGT for the same reason.

In NAV mode TGT shouldn't be an option because there is no target (I think). Not all sighting points are available at all times. I've never heard of AP.

[Fakum]

Thanks for the feedback, I dont know what I could be doing to make this happen but on 3 occasions, I am going along with the ground radar in GMT mode on the left mfd, and on the right, i have the TGP up. With the ground radar as SOI, I lockup a GMT, then I have the option to press the OSB labeled TGT, and when I press it, the TGP slews to the target. GREAT!

At some points during my runs, I go to do it all over again and when I lockup the next GMT, and I look at the OSB that once had the TGT, it is now STP? And I have tried MANY different approaches to get rid of the STP and have it labeled as TGT,, but I can never get the STP to cycle to TGT?

[Fakum]

Maybe I made this a bit convoluted? I dont know. So here is the shortest way I suppose I can ask the question:

If OSB 10 says "STP", how can I change it so it goes back to "TGP"? Thanks,

 

[Frederf]

You can't but don't worry. Even when you have an alternate point cycling the point doesn't change the label properly. It's TGT not TGP though meaning target.

In most situations the steerpoint and target are the same. It should just say TGT in attack mode and STP in NAV mode. But they have the same practical effect.

The only time sighting point isn't STP/TGT is IP/RP in VIP/VRP or OAPs when using those. Sighting point modeling is early days so expect lots of WIP and weird stuff.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Frederf

[Fakum]

I wont beat this topic up anymore, but I certainly appreciate your feedback. In addition, I will just chalk this up to my lack of comprehension. I say that because I still dont get it. To simplify what I mean, i will just say that for example, when I have the GMT up on one MFD, and the TGP up on another, and I have GMT as SOI and I put the crosshairs on a target and lock it up via TMS Forward, I would then press OSB 10 (TGT) and the TGP would slew right to that locked location (GREAT!) After I prosecute that target, I do the same procedure on the next group, and that is when I find that sometimes, that OSB is now somehow labeled as "STP" and if I press it, the TGP does NOT slew to the locked target? And there is nothing I can apparently do to change that? If I interpret your response above correctly, it would seem that it shouldnt matter what it is labeled, it should function the same. I would have to respectfully disagree,,, for me anyway. Again, I do appreciate your feedback. I will just chalk this up as I dont know and will just move along without resolving it for me,,, maybe its tied into a known bug and it gets fixed eventually? Thanks

[Frederf]

The sim has some wrong behavior which is making understanding a little more difficult. F-16 is built with a single line-of-sight concept. By design whatever sensor is selected is the master sensor and every other sensor should immediately* stop tracking and be slaved to it.

In your example by slewing and/or locking the radar the TGP should already be slaved to the FCR LOS. Sensors looking in different directions is not allowed. Earlier F-16s followed this concept based entirely on SOI: changing SOI would cause the non-SOI sensors to immediately break track and slave. FCR SOI causes TGP slave and TGP SOI causes FCR slave. *In later F-16s there was a small exception made: TGP (and only TGP) keeps tracking if another sensor becomes SOI until some input is made (slew or track) on the other sensor.

Your step of pressing OSB 10 to get the TGP to slave is not behavior in the real airplane. A real pilot would not be trying to change sighting point because there would be no need plus it wouldn't actually do anything. But I will explain how DCS has an effect by sort of changing sighting point shortly.

Normally sighting points are some distance displaced from the steerpoint or target. I'm going to use OAPs as example because they are less complicated than IP/RP. Unfortunately the sim doesn't have OAPs in yet so you'll just have to follow along with my description. Say you're trying to bomb a bridge but for some reason it's not expected to show up on radar, made of stealth concrete or something. But intel says there's a radar significant tower east 3000'. So you program in an OAP 3000' east of target and select it in the sighting point rotary. Your target is still the bridge but your sensors (FCR, HUD symbol, TGP) are going to be pointed at the tower during the attack. In this way your weapon aiming point is offset from your sensor(s) point. Look B, kill A.

So the mission is going on and for some reason you change your mind. You don't want to use the OAP and tower to define target location. You want to target the bridge directly. So you change the sighting point from OAP to TGT, as in where your sensors are pointing will be the target location. Look A, kill A. This change of sighting point could cause your sensor cursors to jump by 3000' by mistake. If your master sensor was tracking, changing sighting point would cause a 3000' slew shift. To prevent this the designers have made it so all sighting point changes cause all sensors to break track.

By pressing OSB 10 (or TMS right unless TGP SOI or AGM-65 selected) you're commanding a sighting point change. Really there is only a list of one item (TGT) in the rotary. Changing from TGT to TGT shouldn't count as a change so no sensors should be commanded to do anything. But DCS considers TGT to TGT a change so the sensor break track command is happening anyway. But as we read before the TGP should have already been slaved because you were using the radar. By rapidly pressing OSB10/TMS right you can approximate what the airplane should be doing as each press causes the TGP to slave to FCR LOS. In reality this process is continuous and doesn't require any pilot input.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Frederf

[Fakum]

That is quite the response, I read it all, 3X LOL,,, very informative. I abandoned trying to figure out the OSB 10 procedure I was doing to get the TGP to slew to the locked target (via TGT), and found that I appear to be able to achieve this consistently by locking the target on the FCR screen, then going TMS right. All is well then it seems, thanks

[Frederf]

TMS right (FCR SOI) and OSB 10 should do the same thing. That's the workable procedure to get TGP pointed at SPI.