Trimmer doesn´t work

[crissiloop]

Hello,

 

I have read all the posts about the trimmer, but it doesn´t work.

 

I can steer without problems with pushing the Trimmer Button or without.

When i´m flying straight with a current speed and i push the trim button i realize, that the nose go down a little bit more. Then i instantly remove the stick to neutral. But the nose goes up to the sky and the beast looses the speed.

I´ve tried several timings with releasing stick after pushing the Trimmer; but no chance to get it work.

 

Any ideas?

 

crissiloop

[Isegrim]

Did you do some small nose Down input when you released the Trimm button?

Also if you Trimm nose down and later move the stick back to center you have probably been to slow.

You have only 0.25 seconds to move the Stick back to center after you released the trimm button in Standart Trimm method. (options>special>KA50)

 

You can try central position trimmer mode but iam personaly not a huge fan if this mode because you wont ba able to control the Helicopter unless there is zero input done by the joystick, and most joysticks do always have some kind of input especialy cheap ones.

 

But it also takes some time to understand how the trimmer actually works in the DCS KA50 in the end its a workaround for standart joysticks. It simply only works like the real thing with an FFB joystick.

 

It absolutely can be frustrading for beginners, in the end its practice.

 

ISE  

 

Additional edit: if you use central position trimm method try the standart one.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Isegrim

[Volk.]

@Isegrim ummm. Dunno how to break this to you, but you necroed a 12 year old thread ;-)

[Isegrim]

ah ohh  .... i really dont know why those pop up always on the top of the unread posts. And its not set to oldest thread first   ^^

 

seems like to check this better next time... 

 

 

[Volk.]

well, crissiloop finally got his answer and closure ;-)

[baldeagle611]

Not sure how these forums work but I'll start here. Perhaps someone can shed some light on this?

 

I can't get that trimmer to do anything. The manual suggests editing a file called 'Producer.cfg', to turn off force feedback, but that doesn't exist anywhere.

 

It also suggests opening a file called 'FMOptions.lua' to change the duration, but doesn't say what tool you would use to do this. If you use notepad says you don't have permission to change it.

 

So I'm stuck. Can anyone help?

 

 

[Sh4rk]

1) is the trimmer actually bound to a button on your stick?

 

2) Is your stick FFB or spring loaded (common) type?

 

You shouldn't be having to edit any files to get the trimmer to work. Just go into Options, Special, Ka-50 and check the proper stick setting (FFB, Stick without springs, or more likely, Joystick with a center spring) - and you might check "Rudder Trimmer" as well if you have twist stick instead of pedals.

[baldeagle611]

15 hours ago, Sh4rk said:

1) is the trimmer actually bound to a button on your stick?

 

2) Is your stick FFB or spring loaded (common) type?

 

You shouldn't be having to edit any files to get the trimmer to work. Just go into Options, Special, Ka-50 and check the proper stick setting (FFB, Stick without springs, or more likely, Joystick with a center spring) - and you might check "Rudder Trimmer" as well if you have twist stick instead of pedals.

Hi

 

1) Certainly is, and you can actually hear the faint 'click click' when you press it.

 

2) It's a Speedlink Black Widow, which is sprung conventionally. It doesn't have FFB, but does have vibration. I did wonder if the sim is reading this as FFB? It has a twist rudder.

 

I've tried all combinations of those options. What I've noticed is that If you unplug the stick and fly with the keyboard, the trim works properly, as expected.

 

You're right, you shouldn't have to fiddle about with files just to get a game to work, there's scope for doing serious damage!

 

 

[3WA]

In Options, under Special, go to Ka-50.  Set the Trimmer mode to Central Position Trimmer Mode.  I think that's the right one.

 

This means that when you click trimmer, the Shark will not accept input commands until the joystick is returned to center ( on the physical joystick itself ).

 

Now, we don't have FFB like the Shark does in reality, so we have to use the trimmer in a different way.  When you want to change flight path with the trimmer, instead of clicking it, HOLD IT DOWN, then change your position to where you want while holding down the trimmer, get every thing steady again and flying where you want while holding down the trimmer, now release the trimmer button, and let your joystick go back to center.  You should be trimmed.  Also, if you have the Height autopilot turned on, click your collective brake ( F key ) to set the new height in the height autopilot channel.  The trimmer will reset the center of the cyclic on the shark, wherever you left the cyclic at.  So, if you moved the cyclic 40 percent in force over to the left, that will be the new center of the cyclic.  The flight computer is still seeing 40 percent force push to the left from the cyclic, but the physical cyclic now isn't producing any real force, because of the change in center.  There is ZERO force at the center.  This lets the Auto Pilot once again exert 20 percent force control on the cyclic.  New force input is just added to whatever the flight computer is already seeing from the position of the cyclic.

 

When you hold down the trimmer, the auto pilot channels turn off, so it's going to be a little harder to fly until you release it.  After releasing the trimmer, the channels come back on.

 

As for clicking "rudder trimmer", I believe it's kind of a "cheat".  Supposedly, the AP on the real Shark does not control the physical rudder, only the blades ( at least that's what I hear ).

Edited February 6, 2021 by 3WA

[Fri13]

29 minutes ago, 3WA said:

When you hold down the trimmer, the auto pilot channels turn off, so it's going to be a little harder to fly until you release it.  After releasing the trimmer, the channels come back oon

 

Requires little more information there. The AP channels are not turned Off, instead the AP authority is disabled for the moment the trim is hold down, and all the time input dampening for the channel is active as long the AP channel is On. So pressing AP channel Off requires clicking the corresponding button and light goes Off. 

 

29 minutes ago, 3WA said:

As for clicking "rudder trimmer", I believe it's kind of a "cheat".  Supposedly, the AP on the real Shark does not control the physical rudder, only the blades ( at least that's what I hear ).

 

I believe it is opposite.

 

In a real helicopter you need to hold pedals in the wanted position, just like the cyclic or collective. Those are linear and has full 100% position correspondence.

So if cyclic is moved fully to right, then there is no more any extra lift to be generated to roll to the right.

Even if the trimmed position is fully to the right, the AP can't perform any extra lift.

 

Same thing is with pedals, if you need to
 apply right pedal to fly straight, then you need to hold pedals in that position.

The force trim for pedals is similar, it will lock pedals magnetically to that position. But with the "Rudder trimmer" it is similar as joystick centering trim mode, you trim pedals to position and then you return pedals to center and after that new input can be received.

 

In a KA-50 as there is no anti-torque rotor, the turning is done by adjusting counter-rotating rotors Angle of Attack so that they start to generate more drag to one direction but keep lift same. So if wanted to turn right the rotor rotating to counter-clockwise AoA is increased and then clockwise rotating AoA is decreased. The other rotor "grabs" more to the air and causes fuselage turn to opposite direction. Why one pulling (near) max collective can not turn helicopter as both rotors AoA is at maximum and there is no possibility to have differential AoA for turning, but it's required to lower collective to get authority for turning.

 

Considering that Heading AP channel requires to control this, then AP should have only same 20% authority to pedals position, and so on have a magnetic trim as well there, like with cyclic.

 

But in home cockpit all do not have non-centering pedals so they can't just relax their legs as pedals try to center.

Why the pedals trimmer mode is offered.

 

[3WA]

Ahh, ok.  So "rudder trim" is like "central trimmer mode" for the pedals.  And damping is not turned off when you hit trimmer.

 

Thanks!  I will try it out.

[baldeagle611]

Thanks for all the info guys. I understand all the concepts here, but the fact is, it just don't work.

 

Perhaps I'll try again with 'central position mode' selected. Did you say select 'rudder trim as well'? 

 

I do have a set of pedals, but I'm not using them at the moment. Small steps are needed here!

 

Maybe I should try a different stick? 

[Volk.]

@baldeagle611 you could try a different stick. Maybe it's best if you go on Discord or something and use that to livestream your screens so someone can diagnose what's wrong - assuming it is a setting and not maybe a bust button on your physical stick.

[baldeagle611]

Just dusted off my old X-52 pro. Now the trim works perfectly. This makes me think that the sim is getting FFB input from the Speedlink. So I'd still like to try and edit to 'FALSE' in that file that doesn't exist. Maybe I have to actually create it?

 

You'll probably say why didn't I use the Saitek in the first place, but I was trying to ease into this and get the complicated hardware out later. Same applies to the rudder pedals.

 

At least I'm not tasting concretes and grass so much now.

[Volk.]

Alternately try another button for your Speedlink stick's trimming. Could be that's bust or that while it's depressed it messes with the stick's x & y inputs (ie in axis tuning screen, hold down trim and then move stick to see it behaves differently). There is also a Force-feedback tickbow in the general settings that you can turn off. Not sure what that does but heard it helps some folk.

[baldeagle611]

Did you say it's in the general settings? I haven't found it.

[Volk.]

Sorry, under Misc. tab. Assuming it's not another setting/curve/saturation/double bind/actual hardware issue with the trimmer button, the below might help.

[baldeagle611]

Fixed!!!

 

Thank you.

[Honey]

This comes up every once in a while, so throwing my 5 cents in for future generations: go to "axis assign" and if you have other input devices (especially including vjoy), clear roll/pitch/rudder/thrust/brakes/etc. for all input devices except for your actual joystick/pedals you physically use to steer your aircraft. Only one input device has to be assigned to affect control surfaces. At least start from there, and see if it fixes your trimming. This applies to all aircraft in the game. If there are multiple devices that are set to manipulate the same control surface, in circumstances, your trimming won't work (it will be reset by interfering input devices).

 

Cheers.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Honey

[Flappie]

Many thanks, @Honey. I was having this "bug" for the first time and I couldn't understand what was happening. Truth is I installed Joystick Gremlin not long ago to test some bug report. I affected random axis to my vJoy virtual device and among them was Roll and Pitch.

 

I found your post, removed the conflicting vJoy axis and now my trimmer works again.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Flappie