Mad_Shell Posted December 16, 2021 Posted December 16, 2021 I posted that on hoggit some time ago, but I figured out it would belong here too. I'm aware some of these suggestions would require A LOT of work, so don't take it as "I want all of that asap!", but more as what a nice ground AI and "warfare" should have in the long term. As a helicopter player, very excited for the Apache realease, and the upcoming dynamic campaign, I find myself quite often frustrated by the very, very limited ground AI. I know I'm not the only one in this case, and I also know it's not an easy task to do a decent AI (many, many variables and parameters, CPU performance). However, here are a few improvements I suggest for the future, some should be quite easy to implement, some probably quite difficult, but would undoubtly make DCS a whole new experience. Infantry: infantry should lie down on the ground when there are nearby explosions (and should take less damage by doing so) or when being targeted by machine gun or large caliber: suppression should be a thing. Units such as ATGM post and machine gun nests are much needed. We need a way to create military groups as in real life. IRL, a company is made of platoons which are made of sections etc... Let us for example create a company, and the AI should know that when attacking or retreating, at least one platoon should support and do suppressive fire while the others are moving. Because yes, infantry units should move when attacking or defending. As written by Teh_Original in the comments: " If you set up two teams in an attack/defend scenario, neither will deviate from their self assigned course, or posted position to either take cover, or to re-aquire a shot. There is no way in the ME to get this behavior either. In addition, Ground AI currently mimics Skyrim's "Guess it was just the wind." reaction to a threat disappearing out of line of sight. Ground AI should either remember the last seen position, or seek out the anticipated next sighting location." Armor: Corrections to vehicles capabilities! Many stats are wrong in game: tanks reverse speeds are very wrong (example: Leclerc reverse speed in DCS: 9km/h, IRL: 35-40 km/h...), tanks accuracy is nerfed to the ground compared to real life (especially when moving, they can't hit a thing while IRL it's really not a problem). Option to add vegetation and nets camo on MBTs in the mission editor. Such camo would limit visual, thermal and radar spotting, and create interesting scenarios for helicopter players in particular. Add defensive capabilites: many vehicles can deploy smoke when threatened, or when lased for some. Same as point 3 for infantry. In the mission editor, let us the option to use reverse speed to move vehicles! It would allow the players to create pop up attacks, a very important tactic for tanks. Artillery: Units like infantry, armor, etc... should be able to call for friendly artillery fire on a spotted ennemy if there is some friendly artillery in range. Artillery should then move a bit if there is ennemy artillery, because counter-battery should be a thing when in range and if there is a counter-battery radar. Correct artillery accuracy! Modern artillery generally has an accuracy of a few tens of meters at ranges of tens of kilometers. In DCS the accuracy is nowhere as good... Many artillery units should be able to use smoke or illumination munitions. For example infantry and armor units should be able to call for smoke fire if they're losing a fight (for example infantry attacked by armor, or casualties > 30%) to retreat. More global improvements AI units should communicate! When an EW radar spots incoming ennemy planes, convoys should disperse or hide in a forest, interceptors and air defenses should react accordingly (IADS). When a attack helicopter has sneaked up without being spotted and attacks an artillery battery for example, that battery should be able to inform other units, and maybe 10mn later the helicopter will have the bad surprise to see 2 Mig 29 incoming. For long range SAMs, please make the default intercept range something like 60% or 70%. No SAM operator would engage a fighter at max range. Fragmentation damage (already planned by ED, source somewhere in the forums). many bushes and trees are indestructible and will block even MBTs... Ground units laser accuracy against aircraft. Hitting them is hard IRL. Really hard. 4
upyr1 Posted December 17, 2021 Posted December 17, 2021 Agreed on everything especially the idea of units, which i have been asking for in multiple posts. This is something that will need to be added if Eagle is serious about the dynamic campaign. That would require the AI is able to coordinate units and use realistic strategies. 2
FlankerKiller Posted December 18, 2021 Posted December 18, 2021 +1 on everything. DCS needs better ground AI way more then it needs any new assets. 2
Callsign112 Posted December 18, 2021 Posted December 18, 2021 On 12/16/2021 at 6:57 PM, Mad_Shell said: I posted that on hoggit some time ago, but I figured out it would belong here too. I'm aware some of these suggestions would require A LOT of work, so don't take it as "I want all of that asap!", but more as what a nice ground AI and "warfare" should have in the long term. As a helicopter player, very excited for the Apache realease, and the upcoming dynamic campaign, I find myself quite often frustrated by the very, very limited ground AI. I know I'm not the only one in this case, and I also know it's not an easy task to do a decent AI (many, many variables and parameters, CPU performance). However, here are a few improvements I suggest for the future, some should be quite easy to implement, some probably quite difficult, but would undoubtly make DCS a whole new experience. Infantry: infantry should lie down on the ground when there are nearby explosions (and should take less damage by doing so) or when being targeted by machine gun or large caliber: suppression should be a thing. Units such as ATGM post and machine gun nests are much needed. We need a way to create military groups as in real life. IRL, a company is made of platoons which are made of sections etc... Let us for example create a company, and the AI should know that when attacking or retreating, at least one platoon should support and do suppressive fire while the others are moving. Because yes, infantry units should move when attacking or defending. As written by Teh_Original in the comments: " If you set up two teams in an attack/defend scenario, neither will deviate from their self assigned course, or posted position to either take cover, or to re-aquire a shot. There is no way in the ME to get this behavior either. In addition, Ground AI currently mimics Skyrim's "Guess it was just the wind." reaction to a threat disappearing out of line of sight. Ground AI should either remember the last seen position, or seek out the anticipated next sighting location." Armor: Corrections to vehicles capabilities! Many stats are wrong in game: tanks reverse speeds are very wrong (example: Leclerc reverse speed in DCS: 9km/h, IRL: 35-40 km/h...), tanks accuracy is nerfed to the ground compared to real life (especially when moving, they can't hit a thing while IRL it's really not a problem). Option to add vegetation and nets camo on MBTs in the mission editor. Such camo would limit visual, thermal and radar spotting, and create interesting scenarios for helicopter players in particular. Add defensive capabilites: many vehicles can deploy smoke when threatened, or when lased for some. Same as point 3 for infantry. In the mission editor, let us the option to use reverse speed to move vehicles! It would allow the players to create pop up attacks, a very important tactic for tanks. Artillery: Units like infantry, armor, etc... should be able to call for friendly artillery fire on a spotted ennemy if there is some friendly artillery in range. Artillery should then move a bit if there is ennemy artillery, because counter-battery should be a thing when in range and if there is a counter-battery radar. Correct artillery accuracy! Modern artillery generally has an accuracy of a few tens of meters at ranges of tens of kilometers. In DCS the accuracy is nowhere as good... Many artillery units should be able to use smoke or illumination munitions. For example infantry and armor units should be able to call for smoke fire if they're losing a fight (for example infantry attacked by armor, or casualties > 30%) to retreat. More global improvements AI units should communicate! When an EW radar spots incoming ennemy planes, convoys should disperse or hide in a forest, interceptors and air defenses should react accordingly (IADS). When a attack helicopter has sneaked up without being spotted and attacks an artillery battery for example, that battery should be able to inform other units, and maybe 10mn later the helicopter will have the bad surprise to see 2 Mig 29 incoming. For long range SAMs, please make the default intercept range something like 60% or 70%. No SAM operator would engage a fighter at max range. Fragmentation damage (already planned by ED, source somewhere in the forums). many bushes and trees are indestructible and will block even MBTs... Ground units laser accuracy against aircraft. Hitting them is hard IRL. Really hard. +1. There is a lot there, and certainly more could be added, but the point is well made. Ground/sea operations should be given more attention as they are a major part of the air operations that take place. This is certainly the case for SP today, and the only reason it isn't a major part of MP today is because of the limited way it is represented. The growing interest in helicopter modules is just an example, and a very good reason why the ground war needs to be better represented. 2
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