Some Maverick questions from Viper novice

[twistking]

Hello, i have some questions about the Mavericks in the F-16c, that i did not find answered in the manual. Hope you can help...

1. What's the difference between Vis and Bore mode in practical terms? I understand the technical differences, but from a workflow perspective they seem so similar, that i cannot really see why i would use one over the other. Do you have any experiences where each mode has its advantages?

2. Why does 2x Ripple Fire and Vis mode only work with Lau-117, but not with Lau-88? I don't see what's technically challenging about either function. Auto handoff works with the Lau-88 and for me that seems to be a more advanced feature...

3. For me TGP auto handoff does not work reliably. I've boresighted the Mav and i can confirm that the seeker looks at the same position, but still auto handoff does not work most of the time. If auto handoff fails, do i have to do soemthing, or will the system simply try again? If the Mav locks on the wrong target, i switch Soi to Mav, press TMS aft, Soi back to TGP and let auto handoff try it again, correct?
If handoff fails, but Mav hasn't locked anything, will it try again, or does the system wait for any input?
There are no dedicated Hotas commands for auto handoff, correct? I just wait for the system to lock, correct?

4. Does manual handoff mean, that i switch Soi to mav and command the lock with mav as Soi, or is there a Hotas command to command Mav lock while TGP is Soi?

5. What's your preferred target to do Mav boresighting with? Would ships work well (they are easy to identify at range)? Have you tried locking up your wingman, then falling back to archieve boresighting at max range?

Thanks

Edited December 29, 2021 by twistking

[Frederf]

1. EO VIS is a visual mode. EO BORE is a preplanned. The bore cross shouldn't move. Bore is Pre but degraded. Basically only use PRE and VIS. Bore is for when you're in Pre but want to engage Maverick without disturbing your SPI.

2. Bug.

3. It's not all that great. Real life has two stages to prevent most wrong targets. TMS right should reject previous handoff for another attempt. If you can reestablish slave the the next handoff can be attempted. Cycling DGFT switch is a valuable tool to reset Mav system. A failed handoff will stay failed until you do something about it. They're triggered by releasing TMS forward in point track. You'll see the in progress message.

4. No such thing. WPN SOI and manual control is just the non handoff work flow. The only way to command missile to track when WPN not SOI is TGP SOI point tracking and release TMS forward to initiate a handoff.

5. Building. FCR to TGP to WPN. Easy to find, far, doesn't move. Ship is good too.

[twistking]

17 minutes ago, Frederf said:

1. EO VIS is a visual mode. EO BORE is a preplanned. The bore cross shouldn't move. Bore is Pre but degraded. Basically only use PRE and VIS. Bore is for when you're in Pre but want to engage Maverick without disturbing your SPI.

2. Bug.

3. It's not all that great. Real life has two stages to prevent most wrong targets. TMS right should reject previous handoff for another attempt. If you can reestablish slave the the next handoff can be attempted. Cycling DGFT switch is a valuable tool to reset Mav system. A failed handoff will stay failed until you do something about it. They're triggered by releasing TMS forward in point track. You'll see the in progress message.

4. No such thing. WPN SOI and manual control is just the non handoff work flow. The only way to command missile to track when WPN not SOI is TGP SOI point tracking and release TMS forward to initiate a handoff.

5. Building. FCR to TGP to WPN. Easy to find, far, doesn't move. Ship is good too.

Thanks for the answers! Much appreciated.

1. I did not really understand that bore is also some kind of preplanned mode. Will give it a try next time. Might be usefull for when you have Mavs but no TGP then?!

2. I don't think that it's a bug as it's mentioned in the manual: "VIS mode is unavailable if the Mavericks are loaded onto an LAU-88/A rack." and "The AGM-65s must be loaded on LAU-117 pylons for ripple fire to be available." I haven't yet tried if it's this way in the sim though...

3.-5. Nice tips there. Will give it a try. Official manual was a bit lacking on those parts...

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

I use WPN display with Bore more than Vis or Pre and do not always bother with the cumbersome boresighting and TGP coordination. I find Bore least annoying of all as the crosshairs just point forward and if it is somewhere else, undesignate slews it back to front. Vis follows your flight path marker which may not always face directly in front depending on your flying. 

[Frederf]

It's a sort of technicality. Notice that EO VIS puts radar in AGR while EO PRE/BORE has radar GM (TGP similar to radar in each). Bore is nice because it's simple and there is no complicated preplanned or visual cueing. Fly the bore cross over the target, put WPN video on target, track, shoot. Your SPI can be over somewhere else if you like. It's not useful that often but it's a nice option especially when life it getting too complicated and you just need to shoot the missile.

Missile step is supposed to bounce between the two stations, not all missiles. The "STEP" option on the MFDs cycles through the missiles on a particular launcher. Let's revisit the issue once that's corrected. The capability of the multiple launcher depends on its version (LAU-88/A or LAU-88A/A). The later, better ones had more capability.

I haven't gotten the reject handoff, reattempt stuff working reasonably. All the pieces may not yet be in place.

[Bunny Clark]

12 hours ago, twistking said:

2. I don't think that it's a bug as it's mentioned in the manual: "VIS mode is unavailable if the Mavericks are loaded onto an LAU-88/A rack." and "The AGM-65s must be loaded on LAU-117 pylons for ripple fire to be available." I haven't yet tried if it's this way in the sim though...

This is not currently correct in DCS, it should work, but it has limitations. IRL, missiles on LAU-88 launchers can be used in Ripple mode, but only one missile per launcher/station can be locked and rippled at a time, up to a max of two (one on each station that can carry Mavs). Basically, the aircraft's system treats the LAU-88 as a single missile, it doesn't know how to talk to multiple missiles on the same rail at the same time. This is why, as Frederf said above, MSL STEP on the stick should step between stations, not between missiles on a LAU-88 - that's what the STEP command on the MFD does. 

The main difference between VIS and BORE is that BORE will not change or interact with your designated target at all. If you already have a designated target you don't want to loose, but you want to rapidly engage a pop-up target with a Mav, BORE is fairly useful. The catch is, because the designated target does not get moved no sensors are brought to bear for the missile shot, and you will not have any range information - range information will continue to be provided to your Designated Target, wherever that is. In VIS mode, once you designate a target with the HUD (TMS Up to stabilize the TD Box), the radar will begin ranging to the designated target and give you a launch zone indication for the Mav (though, point of note, ranging in VIS mode is provided to the TD Box in the HUD, not where the Mav seeker head is actually looking, though they tend to be close enough to make no difference). 

[twistking]

thanks to all of you :-)