Fire warning and suppression system

[Dreamboy]

I was following a checklist where it says to test the fire warnings by placing the switch in test mode.

 

I've tryed many switch combinations and pressed all the fire warning switches without any lights or indications working.

 

Does this system work at all?

 

Also I've seen that the red buttons to use the fire extinguishers can be pressed with a single mouse click. This means that clicking one of them by error can totally destroy one engine during flight.

 

Some body knows how this buttons work in real live? They must have some kind of fool protection.

 

Regards!

[mckee14]

the fool protection in the real pit is the fact, that the extinguishers will launch automatically and so you DON'T TOUCH THEM. then, as a second protection, there are these red thingies around the buttons, so you can not accidentally touch them, you have to press the buttons inside these red thingies with your fingertip.

 

if you accidentally hit buttons with your fingertip and press them, you should not fly attack choppers. or planes. or drive cars at all...

[Tartan_Piper]

I was following a checklist where it says to test the fire warnings by placing the switch in test mode.

 

I've tryed many switch combinations and pressed all the fire warning switches without any lights or indications working.

 

Does this system work at all?

 

Also I've seen that the red buttons to use the fire extinguishers can be pressed with a single mouse click. This means that clicking one of them by error can totally destroy one engine during flight.

 

Some body knows how this buttons work in real live? They must have some kind of fool protection.

 

Regards!

 

Ok the system consists of 4 switches, one horizontal and three vertical. The left most switch (horizontal),is the fire extinguisher switch should be left in the left most position Automatic. This will automatically fire the extinguishers if a fire is detected.

 

Now to test the system. Move the second from the left switch to the bottom position. This will put the system in test mode. Then move the next switch to the right to the up position. This will enable the fire monitoring and alarm system.

 

The right most switch is the group test switch and will test the 3 groups of sensors. Move the switch to the down position this will test the first sensor group and the fire warning lights should illuminate. Next return this switch to the middle position and turn on and off the fire monitoring and alarm system switch and the lights will go off. Repeat for the other two group test positions.

 

Now the system has been tested move the second from the left switch to the up most position (WORK) and you’re ready to go.

 

Abit of a bable but i hope it helps

[Xjikz]

So if I have a fire engine, I just pray, and hope the system stops automatically the fire ?

Because I already had one red light ON on the left engine, and the RPM monitor showed that the engine was broken, as I didn't know what to do I just continued to fly with the second engine and managed to land!

 

Here's another question to you guys, I saw that the hydraulic system had a backup in case the main system was down, how can we switch to the backup system ?

Once the hydraulics were down and I couldn't extend my landing gear, I had to land without it because the emergency system wasn't working to extend the gears also !

 

Thanks to you guys !

[Dreamboy]

Tartan thanks a lot for your clear and detailed explanation of how the fire suppression system works. I will test it as soon as I can.

 

I agree with mckee14. If you press the button you shouldn't be fliying the helicopter. But as normally this switches are more complex to use in commercial planer I just wanted to know how it worked in the Ka-50.

 

On a Boeing 737 for example you have to pull the extinguisher control out and then twist to one side or the other to discharge the bottles. I understand that possiblities of an engine fire are more provable in a militar helicopter and just pressint a button is faster in combat.

 

To Xjikz: That's right in auto mode bottle 1 should discharge automatically and you can pray for the fire to extinguish. I understand that if this is not enought fire warning will remain lit and you need to discharge bottle 2 manually.

 

Of course after a fire and bottle discharge the engine will be totally ruined and useless. The fire suppression system is used to extinguish the fire so the helicopter doesn't blow on the air when the fire goes bigger. So you can land with your remaining engine and survive or even save the helicopter.

[ZaltysZ]

Here's another question to you guys, I saw that the hydraulic system had a backup in case the main system was down, how can we switch to the backup system ?

Once the hydraulics were down and I couldn't extend my landing gear, I had to land without it because the emergency system wasn't working to extend the gears also !

 

The switch is near landing gear lever, under red cover.

[Tartan_Piper]

So if I have a fire engine, I just pray, and hope the system stops automatically the fire ?

Because I already had one red light ON on the left engine, and the RPM monitor showed that the engine was broken, as I didn't know what to do I just continued to fly with the second engine and managed to land!

 

Here's another question to you guys, I saw that the hydraulic system had a backup in case the main system was down, how can we switch to the backup system ?

Once the hydraulics were down and I couldn't extend my landing gear, I had to land without it because the emergency system wasn't working to extend the gears also !

 

Thanks to you guys !

 

If you hit the extinguisher botton for the corosponding fire light i'm pretty sure it fire's are second extinguisher bottle. That should put your mind at rest. :thumbup:

[Tartan_Piper]

So if I have a fire engine, I just pray, and hope the system stops automatically the fire ?

Because I already had one red light ON on the left engine, and the RPM monitor showed that the engine was broken, as I didn't know what to do I just continued to fly with the second engine and managed to land!

 

Here's another question to you guys, I saw that the hydraulic system had a backup in case the main system was down, how can we switch to the backup system ?

Once the hydraulics were down and I couldn't extend my landing gear, I had to land without it because the emergency system wasn't working to extend the gears also !

 

Thanks to you guys !

 

From what i understand the hydraulics has two systems, main and common. When the main hydraulics switch is on (up position) your are using the main hydraulics. When its off (down position) you are using the common hydraulics.

 

The manual doesnt explain very much about this so i'm not sure the in's and out's of either system and i might have got this wrong.

[AlphaOneSix]

FIRE SUPPRESSION

 

The first bottle is fired automatically as soon as a fire is detected in any compartment that has fire detectors. There is still a button to manually discharge the first bottle, but you should not have to use it. The second bottle must be fired manually if the fire does not go out after the first bottle goes off, or if there is a second fire later on before you can get home or land. If you accidentally fire a bottle and there is no fire, do not worry, you won't break anything, but you won't be able to use that bottle to put out a fire later, either.

 

If you have an engine fire, don't forget to remove fuel from that engine using the big red fuel cutoff lever. If you have time, it is also adviseable to turn off the fuel shuttoff valve for the affected engine, but the red fuel cuttoff lever is a must.

 

HYDRAULICS

 

Both hydraulic systems are working all the time. The landing gear are normally operated by the common system. If the common system fails, there is a switch on the landing gear control panel that switches them to operate off of the main system.

 

There is also a switch on the right side panel that switches the flight controls from the main system to the common system. This is for testing purposes only, in an emergency where the main system fails, the flight controls will automatically switch over to the common system.

Edited December 2, 2008 by AlphaOneSix

[Dreamboy]

FIRE SUPPRESSION

If you accidentally fire a bottle and there is no fire, do not worry, you won't break anything, but you won't be able to use that bottle to put out a fire later, either.

 

Does this mean that the Ka-50 has a system that doesn't allow to discharge a bottle if there's no fire warning active? Or this system is not totally simulated on DCS?

 

I understand that after a bottle discharge the affected element (engine, APU or gearbox) should be totally damaged and inoperative.

[Tartan_Piper]

Cheers for clearing that up for us Alpha. :thumbup:

[Xjikz]

Thanks for all these explainations, now I'm going to make a mission with failures, so I can test the emergency procedures... this evening's going to be fun ;)

[AlphaOneSix]

Does this mean that the Ka-50 has a system that doesn't allow to discharge a bottle if there's no fire warning active? Or this system is not totally simulated on DCS?

 

No, if you push the button, the bottle will discharge (both for real and in-game). Well, there is just one button per zone (section/compartment), so the first time you push the button, the first bottle will discharge. The second time you hit one of the discharge buttons, the second bottle will discharge, unless of course the first bottle was discharge automatically when a fire was detected, in which case the first time you hit the button, you're discharging the second bottle. Clear as mud!

 

I understand that after a bottle discharge the affected element (engine, APU or gearbox) should be totally damaged and inoperative.

 

That is not true at all. The bottles contain Freon (or maybe Halon, I know Western aircraft use Halon, but Mil aircraft use Freon). Anyway, discharging a bottle just sends a lot of Freon into the affected compartment in order to remove oxygen and starve the fire. If there is no fire, then nothing will happen...well, you will discharge the contents of your fire bottle, but that doesn't break anything, it just empties the fire bottle.

[Dreamboy]

No, if you push the button, the bottle will discharge (both for real and in-game). Well, there is just one button per zone (section/compartment), so the first time you push the button, the first bottle will discharge. The second time you hit one of the discharge buttons, the second bottle will discharge, unless of course the first bottle was discharge automatically when a fire was detected, in which case the first time you hit the button, you're discharging the second bottle. Clear as mud!

 

This is totally clear and, in fact, is how I understood it works.

 

That is not true at all. The bottles contain Freon (or maybe Halon, I know Western aircraft use Halon, but Mil aircraft use Freon). Anyway, discharging a bottle just sends a lot of Freon into the affected compartment in order to remove oxygen and starve the fire. If there is no fire, then nothing will happen...well, you will discharge the contents of your fire bottle, but that doesn't break anything, it just empties the fire bottle.

 

Ok! Here was my mistake. I though that the bottles used some kind of solid agent that will destroy the engine if discharged. Now I find more logical to use Halon or Freon agents as they can't harm any system.

 

But I suppose that discharging a Freon bottle on the engine will cause an engine flame out. So you will need to execute some engine restart procedure. Right?

 

It's a shame there're no emergency procedures check list on the manual. With the amazing detail of this simulation will be great to practice and learn this procedures.

[AlphaOneSix]

But I suppose that discharging a Freon bottle on the engine will cause an engine flame out. So you will need to execute some engine restart procedure. Right?

 

Nope, the supression agent is not ingested into the engine, so does not affect the running of the engine. The agent is distributed within the engine compartment, while the engine intake is outside of that compartment, breathing fresh, clean air. :)

[Dreamboy]

Nope, the supression agent is not ingested into the engine, so does not affect the running of the engine. The agent is distributed within the engine compartment, while the engine intake is outside of that compartment, breathing fresh, clean air. :)

 

That's great! Thanks to your explanations I've learned a lot about how those fire suppression systems work.

 

Now I have everything more clear and I see that a fire agent discharge on the engine it's not as dangerous as I thought.

 

Thanks a lot for you help! :)

[EvilBivol-1]

It's a shame there're no emergency procedures check list on the manual.

There will be in the extended version of the Flight Manual.

[crazysundog]

Thanks Alpha, very helpful knowledge!!