Pass or not pass in vr??

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

5 hours ago, PLUTON said:

So there with what I just read in the comments!
I have to do with relentless virtual reality, thank you for these well-explained comments and I hope that I will become dependent like you on this one.
That's it I ordered a G2 reverb with the controllers
delivery in ten days.
Thank you for everything .

meanwhile get a cheap external HDD for the adult thing!!!

[DeltaMike]

On 3/7/2022 at 4:45 PM, PLUTON said:

Yes, apparently you're right, it's best to take them with it, no worries and who knows, maybe they'll be useful to me later.
Thank you for this wise advice to all and good flights.
Normally I receive it around March 17 or 18 so I will come back to you to explain myself if necessary to configure it with steam vr or Windows Mixed Reality once again thank you all and good flights

Woohoo!

It's a little complicated getting it set up, take it one step at a time

First goal: play around in WMR home, there's a lot of REALLY cool stuff to do in there.  Learn how to use controllers and mouse, learn how to pull up your desktop.  Reference: https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c06433655

Second goal:   Play around in SVR home, which isn't quite as much fun but it has its moments.  Learn how to bring up your  menus and settings.  You'll need "the runtime" -- Steam VR (SVR) -- and your WMR driver: Windows Mixed Reality for Steam VR (WMR4SVR).  Both are free downloads from the Steam store.  

Reference: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/mixed-reality/enthusiast-guide/using-steamvr-with-windows-mixed-reality

Third goal: take at least one flight in DCS with a minimum amount of frustration. 

I would suggest setting Steam Global Resolution to 80%.  Look for the slider under "General" or "Video" tab.  Both sliders do the same thing, adjusting one adjusts the other (yes, that's stupid).   Don't worry about your Steam Per-App or WMR4SVR settings just yet.   

In DCS settings, set textures high, civ traffic off, vis range medium, water and clouds low, cockpit shadows off, terrain shadows off, AF 16x, cockpit displays 512.  Grass off, trees and detail factors somewhere in the middle, pre-load somewhere in the middle.  Cockpit global illum, MSAA, SSAA, SSAO, SSLR, heat blur, depth of field, lens effect, motion blur — all off.  Set pixel density to 1.0 and never touch that slider again, as long as you live.  

Strap in for a free flight in the Caucasus and enjoy your first day.   I imagine you will find it glorious.  

Note, when you fly close to the ground you'll probably see some stuttering.  Don't worry, we will iron that out for you.  

Let us know when you're ready to start tuning.  We will need information about your framerates, your GPU render time, and some measure of render time variability. There's an inexpensive utility you can download from the Steam store called fpsVR, it'll give you all that info in real time and it's well worth the money. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by DeltaMike

[PLUTON]

Thank you DeltaMike normally I receive my RV around 03/15
So as soon as I'm ready I'll come back to you for more explanations (settings).
Thanks in advance for all the help

[PLUTON]

Hello again gentlemen pilots, my reverb G2
and arrive yesterday afternoon 4 days in advance which is very good.
The settings on steam vr with wmr are not obvious and I spent all the evening there devoting just that.
Then finally the first flight over the Caucasus with the Viper and the M2000
breathtaking, not necessarily the sets but the cockpit where I had the impression of being seated in it to such an extent that I found myself trying to grab the buttons and other parts believing that they were real, all this to say that yes I wouldn't go back to 2d again.
only problem for me and I hope just today is that my eyes burst since I abused my first experience during
6 hours in a row last night, but no big deal I'm attacking tonight.
I had a blue screen 2 or 3 times for 10 seconds without knowing why, and now it's going to be the settings to have the smoothest flight possible.

[edmuss]

The first time in vr is mind blowing. Always.

The fact you've gone straight in with a current gen headset rather than starting at the start with the Oculus rift dk1/dkw is just going to amplify the immersion.

I've been flying in vr for three years now, admittedly most of it in space ships in elite dangerous but more recently in dcs now I have a G2 and it can do justice to the clarity and detail that goes into the cockpits.

Buy a copy of fpsvr and get it set up in the headset, it's a godsend for performance tuning. Post up your specs in here and I'm sure a multitude of options and opinions will come your way. A lot of it is personal preference so try it all and don't be afraid to mix stuff up, there is no hard and fast rule but it will take quite a long time to find your optimum setup.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, PLUTON said:

Hello again gentlemen pilots, my reverb G2
and arrive yesterday afternoon 4 days in advance which is very good.
The settings on steam vr with wmr are not obvious and I spent all the evening there devoting just that.
Then finally the first flight over the Caucasus with the Viper and the M2000
breathtaking, not necessarily the sets but the cockpit where I had the impression of being seated in it to such an extent that I found myself trying to grab the buttons and other parts believing that they were real, all this to say that yes I wouldn't go back to 2d again.
only problem for me and I hope just today is that my eyes burst since I abused my first experience during
6 hours in a row last night, but no big deal I'm attacking tonight.
I had a blue screen 2 or 3 times for 10 seconds without knowing why, and now it's going to be the settings to have the smoothest flight possible.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of VR flight simming. Be aware it is quite addictive!

[PLUTON]

Too late, I'm already hooked, I'm untreatable

On the other hand, I noticed that he is sitting very close to the dashboard and I think that is the right and real position!!
But very different than in 2d

[PLUTON]

I bought FPSVR expensive Steam and I made it
install directly in steamvr by steam but i have to be a...
because I can't find the settings table in steamvr
how do you do yourself???

[edmuss]

The fpsvr menu should be one of the circles in the bottom left corner of the steamvr overlay, it might have been collapsed in with another menu such as the wmr for steamvr settings; click on each circle in turn and see what comes up.

 

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

21 hours ago, PLUTON said:

Too late, I'm already hooked, I'm untreatable

On the other hand, I noticed that he is sitting very close to the dashboard and I think that is the right and real position!!
But very different than in 2d

you can adjust that on the fly with "RCtrl + RShift + NumPad *" and "RCtrl + RShift + NumPad /"

edited to write down the proper keystroke

Edited March 13, 2022 by Ala12Rv-Tundra

[DeltaMike]

I can't find fpsVR on the menu bar either.  Maybe I should look harder.  I usually start fpsVR from SteamVR home  by pressing the menu button (three lines) on the RIGHT controller, to bring up the console. Hit the library icon, select "VR" and choose from that array.  

You might have to spend a little time with it to get it working right.  If you attach the overlay to a controller, you have to rotate your wrist like you're looking at a watch.  If you set it to float (which is what I do) it starts off down on the floor, but moves into field of view when I start DCS.  

What do you want to do next?

• I’d like some shadows.
• I’d like to be able to see farther into the distance.
• I would like to improve my spotting distance, so I can see what I’m shooting at.
• I would like to sharpen the image up so I can read my MFD’s better. 
• The shimmering is driving me bonkers, I’d like to soften the image. 
• I would like more color saturation.
• I fly off the carrier a lot, I need to be able to see the wake.   
• I notice stuttering when I fly close to the ground, and I would like to make that go away.
• I want to play Beat Sabre at 100% resolution, and DCS at 80% (or something like that).  

Or perhaps you have a different priority.  What is it?

Regardless, let’s do one thing at a time.  Pick one to start. 

Depending on what you want to do, it will be very helpful to have your average FPS and your GPU time.  Also, look at the GPU time graph. It will probably be yellow, which is fine.  Let us know if there is any red.  
 

 

[PLUTON]

 

 

I notice stuttering when I fly close to the ground, and I would like to make that go away.

 

Ok I will do what you tell me to look for and I will let you know thank you for your patience

[edmuss]

What refresh rate have you got the headset set to and what are your typical GPU frametimes when it's stuttering?

What motion smoothing options have you got set? You can either use the steamvr motion smoothing or the wmr motion smoothing. They both generally function the same but I find I get smoother image with the wmr smoothing set to auto and the steamvr smoothing disabled.

The motion smoothing will keep the image from stuttering as long as you can achieve enough initial performance for it to work it's magic.

At 90Hz refresh rate you need your frametimes to be consistently below 20ms otherwise the smoothing will disable itself. At 60Hz refresh rate you need your frametimes to be consistently below 30ms otherwise the smoothing will disable itself.

If you're using 90Hz and you're not achieving 20ms or less then your need to reduce your settings, this can done by reducing settings, reducing render resolution or using mods to improve performance. If you run the headset at 60Hz then there is a much larger overhead available before the motion smoothing is disabled so you can run much higher settings. Note that 60Hz has a visible refresh rate flicker that some people are sensitive to, I found that I didn't see the flicker after about 20 minutes.

[DeltaMike]

^Agree completely.  There are a bunch of things on the hardware and software side that can cause stuttering, fortunately with Intel/NVIDIA and a new G2 it's probably not hardware.

Motion Vector solves a lot of the software problems, effective on several different levels.

If you do decide to try 60Hz, don't rip your headset off while you're still in WMR home, that joint flickers like a bad fluorescent light.  Get in to DCS and fly around a little before you decide.  

You get into your WMR settings using the headset icon on the Steam VR console (right hand controller, button with three lines).  "Video" tab.  That's about the only thing you ever go into the WMR settings for.

Motion vector causes some ghosting around text.  Try to ignore it.  

Excellent!  Next?

[PLUTON]

my refresh rate is 90 hz
resolution of 3164X3092 so at 100%
40fps and you said (a refresh rate of 90hz, you need your frame times to be consistently under 20ms or smoothing will turn off on its own) and further you say (if you're using 90hz and you don't reach 20ms or less, you need to reduce your settings )it's more or less than 20ms help

[edmuss]

Ah yes, vr performance is typically measured in frametimes rather than FPS because it's all related to the refresh rate. Additionally FPS counters cannot record the synthetic frames generated by the smoothing so it will just show it as locked to half of the refresh rate.

To calculate the FPS from the frametime simply divide 1000 by the frametime, therefore 1000/11ms = 90fps.

Remember the following rough figures as landmark values: -

11ms = 90 FPS

16ms = 60 FPS

20ms = 50 FPS

33ms = 30 FPS

The following examples are for 90hz refresh rate.

When the frametimes are below refresh rate (<11ms) then smoothing will be disengaged and FPS will be shown locked to 90 FPS. The image will be smooth and stutter free.

When frametimes are in the smoothing envelope range (<20ms >11ms) then smoothing will be engaged and FPS will be shown locked to 45 FPS. The image will be smooth and stutter free but you may experience visual artifacts.

When frametimes are above the smoothing envelope range (>20ms) then smoothing will be disabled and FPS will show correctly at whatever the GPU can render. The image will be stuttering but without artifacts.

Motion smoothing needs a minimum of 55% of the refresh rate in FPS in order to work. At 90hz this is 20ms/50 FPS, at 60hz this is 30ms/33 FPS. Thusly 60hz refresh rate gives a much lower performance requirement to keep smoothing turned on.

edit: my method of gaining the extra performance you need would be to primarily run 60hz and to use fholgers vrperfkit with fsr upscaling set to 0.75.

Edited March 13, 2022 by edmuss

[PLUTON]

Here I am again after a good night's sleep and thank you very much for this explanation which made me understand the process;
For that I noticed that when I am in the air it runs at around 17 to 22ms and when I drive on the tarmac it runs around 27 to 28ms between 40 and 45 fps always at 90Hz, for this I have to sacrifice medium textures ( the first setting in dcs + msaa off and Anisotropic setting on 2 because 16 the fps drops to 10 frames the trees at 80%, flat shadow. Here is how it is already acceptable without grumbling, now I will try at 60Hz to see what happens gives at the level textures .
BIG THANKS

[edmuss]

Your gpu is pretty close to mine (2080 vs 3070) and with 60Hz I can run 150% resolution with most settings high.  Investigate the vrperfkit, the FSR upscaling will give you another 5ms reduction in frametimes, the fixed foveated rendering* will gain another 1-2ms; if you can couple those together with 60Hz refresh rate then you will then be able to push up the settings up and improve your visual experience.

*the main release of the vrperfkit was bugged on the foveated rendering (but may have been fixed now?), there is a seperate branch that fixes it somewhere, I think the links are in the vrperfkit thread on here.

[PLUTON]

thank you I just tried with a refresh rate of 60Hz.
No big difference in the quality of the visual but a smoother flight without small jerks, really very smooth (appreciable) but is it normal for the fps to remain stable in flight without moving? ( 30 )
however, the cockpit graphics remain as beautiful and readable as 90Hz

[dburne]

12 minutes ago, PLUTON said:

thank you I just tried with a refresh rate of 60Hz.
No big difference in the quality of the visual but a smoother flight without small jerks, really very smooth (appreciable) but is it normal for the fps to remain stable in flight without moving? ( 30 )
however, the cockpit graphics remain as beautiful and readable as 90Hz

If 60 Hz don't bother you that is a very good option. It bothered me the time I tried it, I could just feel the difference.

[edmuss]

41 minutes ago, PLUTON said:

thank you I just tried with a refresh rate of 60Hz.
No big difference in the quality of the visual but a smoother flight without small jerks, really very smooth (appreciable) but is it normal for the fps to remain stable in flight without moving? ( 30 )
however, the cockpit graphics remain as beautiful and readable as 90Hz

Visually, 60Hz and 90Hz are identical apart from the flicker (if you're susceptible to it) but yes the fps being locked down to 30 is normal and just indicates that your performance is within the smoothing envelope (<60 and >33 fps).  Your frametimes will give you an accurate indication of your current performance and how much headroom you have, reference the landmark values above and it will give you something to aim for.

Now that you have 60Hz running and you're happy with the headset comfort you can turn your settings up to improve the clarity, it will now be smooth until the frametimes hit 30ms so you have bags of headroom to play with.  I like to keep the frametimes in general around 16-19ms, that way if I turn on MFDs (with their associated fps hit) and there's a bunch of smoke being rendered then the frametimes can jump up to 24-25 without fear of getting near the smoothing cut off threshold.

In my experience I have found that using a high steamvr resolution and then upscaling it using the vrperfkit fsr@0.75 renderscale actually gives the best clarity of text on the MFDs and cockpit instruments in the A10C.  The way fsr works is to render the image at a lower ratio and then upscale it (using magic) to the original render resolution; essentially if you can put more detail into the initial rendered image then the final rendered image will be of better quality but without the performance hit.  If you use fsr on 100% steamvr resolution then it still gives the performance uplift but it does more noticeably degrade the image quality.

[DeltaMike]

2 hours ago, PLUTON said:

Here I am again after a good night's sleep and thank you very much for this explanation which made me understand the process;
For that I noticed that when I am in the air it runs at around 17 to 22ms and when I drive on the tarmac it runs around 27 to 28ms between 40 and 45 fps always at 90Hz, for this I have to sacrifice medium textures ( the first setting in dcs + msaa off and Anisotropic setting on 2 because 16 the fps drops to 10 frames the trees at 80%, flat shadow. Here is how it is already acceptable without grumbling, now I will try at 60Hz to see what happens gives at the level textures .
BIG THANKS

You're doing great!

You'd probably be better off with high textures and a lower resolution.  Also consider setting both vis range and tree visibility to medium.  

At this point it's worth bringing up the steamvr console with DCS running so you can check your per app settings.  Steam per app resolution should be 100 and steam global resolution should be whatever you set it at.

What do you have those set at right now?

[PLUTON]

resolution by application I haven't looked yet because I don't know where to look.
there should be a guide for dummies for everyone like there is a guide for dummies for windows sometimes that would suit me well;
As for me, I set my resolution in steamvr to 100

[dburne]

3 minutes ago, PLUTON said:

resolution by application I haven't looked yet because I don't know where to look.
there should be a guide for dummies for everyone like there is a guide for dummies for windows sometimes that would suit me well;
As for me, I set my resolution in steamvr to 100

 

Nothing wrong with setting it globally ,just that would be the setting for all your games unless you change it for each game.

[PLUTON]

also after several tries I came back to 90 Hz
because I noticed that it was not better at 60Hz
and the small jerks disappear at 1000 feet therefore!!
but as I heard that flying in virtual reality takes over these small defects

I only use DCS and it's already work

And then I forgot to tell you that I only play solo