Varjo Aero: General guide for new owners

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, Slick Twitchy said:

I see the box as well, I think its the focus vs peripheral difference. (slight difference in brightness) in brighter environments.

And yes, small 

Seems kind of small for the focus area though, would've thought that it would cover more of the FOV at least horizontally.

[motoadve]

Seen the box since the very first flight I did with DFR, does not bothers me at all and hardly noticeable, a very small price to pay compared to the better performance we get with DFR.

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Slick Twitchy said:

I see the box as well, I think its the focus vs peripheral difference. (slight difference in brightness) in brighter environments.

And yes, small 

 

Try as I might I just can not see it. I guess I am fortunate in that regard.

[RedX]

The box might have something to do with shadows and level-of-detail settings? The peripheral and focus areas have different "rules" for lod, which is easily visible when there are trees nearby. 

[Slick Twitchy]

I don't know why I said "small"-brain was already thinking about something else. The box is fairly large (I'd say 30% of the view screen)and flicks around with my eyes-it'd be less noticeable if it was circular-but it's a box. I was assuming it was the "focus" is the foveated rending part (higher resolution-interior) and the "peripheral" (lower resolution-outside.)

Not always noticeable-and worth it for all the other benefits. There were (in OXRT) options to change the size- I think.

[Yuma]

I'm getting double cursor again and a lot of shaking, after doing Varjo OpenXR no command lines with DFR  

[Supmua]

7 hours ago, Yuma said:

I'm getting double cursor again and a lot of shaking, after doing Varjo OpenXR no command lines with DFR  

Make sure you run DCS.exe from bin-mt folder, instead of the old bin folder.  Only mt version has double cursor fix, the st version still shows double cursor (and performance issue).

[Supmua]

9 hours ago, Slick Twitchy said:

I don't know why I said "small"-brain was already thinking about something else. The box is fairly large (I'd say 30% of the view screen)and flicks around with my eyes-it'd be less noticeable if it was circular-but it's a box. I was assuming it was the "focus" is the foveated rending part (higher resolution-interior) and the "peripheral" (lower resolution-outside.)

Not always noticeable-and worth it for all the other benefits. There were (in OXRT) options to change the size- I think.

Foveation in OXRTK works differently, it uses conventional variable rate shading method for resolution changes between outer/inner areas of the screen.  Varjo’s method is rather unconventional by rendering 2 virtual screens per panel each with fixed resolution depending on your PPD setting (though still adjustable via subsampling or supersampling of each screen).  
In the past, OXRTK, which doesn’t support DFR in DCS, typically gave me 1 ms GPU frametime reduction in FFR mode but the new DFR mode definitely gives much more performance.  Even DFR via OXRTK in MSFS still doesn’t yield this much performance uplift that we see in DCS.  So the way Varjo does their DFR is incredibly effective.  Of course, the app itself has to support this method and this is why you don’t see it in other games thanks to fragmentation of tech in PCVR in general.  I’m hoping mbucchia or Varjo themselves will be able to enable this mode system wide for other games somehow, the underlying framework is already there.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Supmua

[dburne]

I have certainly been extremely pleased with DFR along with eye tracking in DCS with my Aero.

Now my understanding is an update to DCS Open Beta when it comes will not affect anything right? Will be no need to do a repair or reinstall of anything?

[Supmua]

Just now, dburne said:

I have certainly been extremely pleased with DFR along with eye tracking in DCS with my Aero.

Now my understanding is an update to DCS Open Beta when it comes will not affect anything right? Will be no need to do a repair or reinstall of anything?

Knowing how each DCS beta update can change things around (without telling you), I’d say anything is possible.  The only way to know for sure is to wait for the next major update and see what works and what doesn’t, which is the way of the beta.  I sure hope they don’t mess with the mt DFR mode that we have now.

[dburne]

Just now, Supmua said:

Knowing how each DCS beta update can change things around (without telling you), I’d say anything is possible.  The only way to know for sure is to wait for the next major update and see what works and what doesn’t, which is the way of the beta.  I sure hope they don’t mess with the mt DFR mode that we have now.

Yeah me too - okay thanks.

[Yuma]

4 hours ago, Supmua said:

Make sure you run DCS.exe from bin-mt folder, instead of the old bin folder.  Only mt version has double cursor fix, the st version still shows double cursor (and performance issue).

Running it from bin-mt ("D:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\DCSWorld\bin-mt\DCS.exe") a lot of shaking and double cursor for me... Don't know what's going on.

Note: I do have this error in OpenXR Tools for Windows Mixed Reality under OpenXR Runtime when using Steam VR OpenXR:

XrResult failure (XR_ERROR_INSTANCE_LOST)

Origin:xrCreateInstance

Edited March 26, 2023 by Yuma

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, Yuma said:

Running it from bin-mt ("D:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\DCSWorld\bin-mt\DCS.exe") a lot of shaking and double cursor for me... Don't know what's going on.

Note: I do have this error in OpenXR Tools for Windows Mixed Reality under OpenXR Runtime when using Steam VR OpenXR:

XrResult failure (XR_ERROR_INSTANCE_LOST)

Origin:xrCreateInstance

 

I'm still at loss what you're trying to accomplish here.  Some observations...

--Windows Mixed Reality Tool should not be used with Varjo Aero, as the Aero is not a WMR headset.

--DFR mode is for Varjo OpenXR only, not Steam OpenXR.

 

To get the best DCS experience that we've been raving about recently, I recommend the following.

1. Uninstall WMR stuff, Uninstall OpenXR Toolkit (for now), Uninstall OpenXR InstancedExtension wrapper (if you installed it, also switch VarjoOpenXR.json file back to the original one).

2. Download and install Varjo_Foveated mod, Home · mbucchia/Varjo-Foveated Wiki · GitHub

3. In Varjo Base app, make sure OpenXR switch is ON (this will disable Steam OpenXR and use Varjo OpenXR instead).

4. Run DCS.exe from bin-mt folder, no command line.  If you still see 2D, enable VR in DCS setting.

5. You can use OpenXR Explorer to examine current API, res, extensions, etc. (not the WMR tool one).

 

EDIT: I notice you're using the Steam version, so things might be slightly different if you want to run directly from Steam's GUI.  May be Steam users can chime in.  But the important thing is that you should no longer have double cursor unless you are in single-threaded quad view mode.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Supmua

[Yuma]

22 minutes ago, Supmua said:

I'm still at loss what you're trying to accomplish here.  Some observations...

--Windows Mixed Reality Tool should not be used with Varjo Aero, as the Aero is not a WMR headset.

--DFR mode is for Varjo OpenXR only, not Steam OpenXR.

 

To get the best DCS experience that we've been raving about recently, I recommend the following.

1. Uninstall WMR stuff, Uninstall OpenXR Toolkit (for now), Uninstall OpenXR InstancedExtension wrapper (if you installed it, also switch VarjoOpenXR.json file back to the original one).

2. Download and install Varjo_Foveated mod, Home · mbucchia/Varjo-Foveated Wiki · GitHub

3. In Varjo Base app, make sure OpenXR switch is ON (this will disable Steam OpenXR and use Varjo OpenXR instead).

4. Run DCS.exe from bin-mt folder, no command line.

5. You can use OpenXR Explorer to examine current API, res, extensions, etc. (not the WMR tool one).

 

The reason I opened WMR is to check the API

1. Uninstall WMR stuff, Uninstall OpenXR Toolkit (for now), Uninstall OpenXR InstancedExtension wrapper (if you installed it, also switch VarjoOpenXR.json file back to the original one). (I will unistall WMR, I did unistall OpenXR InstancedExtension wrapper today early in the morning and I disabled OpenXR toolkit but I will unistall it now)

2. Download and install Varjo_Foveated mod, Home · mbucchia/Varjo-Foveated Wiki · GitHub (Done since yesterday, but given the double cursor issue I reverted back to Steam VR OpenXR, but still have it installed)

3. In Varjo Base app, make sure OpenXR switch is ON (this will disable Steam OpenXR and use Varjo OpenXR instead). (Had it on but again had to switch back because of the double cursor issue as to me that's umplayable like that)

4. Run DCS.exe from bin-mt folder, no command line. (Been using bin-mt since update came out)

5. You can use OpenXR Explorer to examine current API, res, extensions, etc. (not the WMR tool one). (I will give this a try to see if it points to the issue I'm having, definately something is not working propertly here and I appreciate everyone's help on the matter. I dont consider myself an expert but
I do get around this sort of stuff)

Edited March 26, 2023 by Yuma

[Supmua]

The real problem is that getting DCS to run with the Aero, or any headsets, is way to complex than it needs to be.  But we should be able to get you running DCS with great performance/visuals with DCS MT and dynamic foveation.

So it seems to me that you're running Steam OpenXR which is no longer the preferred route (used to be my go to, but MT with DFR via Varjo OpenXR provides much better VR experience).  You need to uninstall the InstancedExtension wrapper and revert the VarjoOpenXR.json to original one (because this is the mod that disables quad view, and we DO want to use quad view for dynamic foveation).  Using OpenXR Explorer tool will help identify your issue(s) and we can see exactly what's going on, it can also show redundant extensions that may cause issues with DCS--which will need to be deleted via regedit if that's the case.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Supmua

[Yuma]

17 minutes ago, Supmua said:

The real problem is that getting DCS to run with the Aero, or any headsets, is way to complex than it needs to be.  But we should be able to get you running DCS with great performance/visuals with DCS MT and dynamic foveation.

So it seems to me that you're running Steam OpenXR which is no longer the preferred route (used to be my go to, but MT with DFR provides much better VR experience).  You need to uninstall the InstancedExtension wrapper and revert the VarjoOpenXR.json to original one (because this is the mod that disables quad view, and we DO want to use quad view for dynamic foveation).  Using OpenXR Explorer tool will help identify your issue(s) and we can see exactly what's going on.

This is what I'm getting with Varjo OpenXR and after the steps above still double cursor and shaking like crazy (Btw I'm getting quad view on my desktop):

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Yuma

[Supmua]

^^above setting looks good to me.  You're using Varjo OpenXR runtime with EyeGazeInteraction as well as FoveatedRendering ON as seen in the left panel, and I don't see any redundant OXR extensions.  So the problem is not with the OpenXR settings.

My next recommendation is to uninstall Varjo Base app, then remove the entire Varjo folder from your C:\Program Files\, then reinstall Varjo Base again.

You may have to reinstall Varjo Foveated mod also.

I would probably do a full DCS repair as well.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Supmua

[Yuma]

1 minute ago, Supmua said:

^^above setting looks good to me.  You're using Varjo OpenXR runtime with EyeGazeInteraction as well as FoveatedRendering ON as seen in the left panel, and I don't see any redundant OXR extensions.  So the problem is not with the OpenXR settings.

My next recommendation is to uninstall Varjo Base app, then remove the entire Varjo folder from your C:\\Program Files\, then reinstall Varjo Base again.

You may have to reinstall Varjo Foveated mod also.

Will do and report back.

[Gordy]

I am not seeing the foveated rendering "box" artifact, even in hornet nevada free flight looking straight up... but I am running with default brightness and gamma levels, so maybe that's a factor.

I *do* absolutely see a weirdly rendered box if I turn on the night vision in the Mi-24... like one side of a set of binoculars or goggles are floating in front of you, and it follows your eye tracking.

I tried turning up the focus_multiplier to 1.2 and 1.5, and it looks marginally better than 1.0 without a dramatic loss of FPS - I still run at 90 fps most of the time, but can come down to 75-80 fps on landings or crowded areas like around Las vegas.    I mostly feel like shimmering is less, distance vision is better, and fine details in the cockpit are nicer, I'll probably run with this set to 1.2 unless the performance hit turns out to be too much at critical times.   I'm hoping this will improve spotting bandits in the distance. 

I need to look up what the max resolution of the focus area on the aero is again 

Also... this new functionality means a VR-3 or XR-3 can now take advantage of their discrete focus displays, yes?   (not that I need to go that far)

[Yuma]

18 minutes ago, Supmua said:

^^above setting looks good to me.  You're using Varjo OpenXR runtime with EyeGazeInteraction as well as FoveatedRendering ON as seen in the left panel, and I don't see any redundant OXR extensions.  So the problem is not with the OpenXR settings.

My next recommendation is to uninstall Varjo Base app, then remove the entire Varjo folder from your C:\\Program Files\, then reinstall Varjo Base again.

You may have to reinstall Varjo Foveated mod also.

Still shaking and double cursor after unistalling VB and deleting Varjo folder  This is getting complicated... Here are my registry that I think are more important or related

nullnullnullnull

Edited March 26, 2023 by Yuma

[Supmua]

Hmm, on the image with AvailableRuntimes you should have VarjoOpenXR.json there too.  In my case I have  both steamxr_win64, and VarjoOpenXR, and also oculus_openxr_64 (I have a Quest 2 and Rift).

Did you reboot the PC after all this?

Another thing to do is reset VB to its original state (Factory setting in Support page).

Also, are you running any other DCS mods that might be causing issues?

Edited March 26, 2023 by Supmua

[Supmua]

I'm messing around with focus_multiplier settings, going ham with it.  According to the wiki, 1.0 is 1200x1200 pixels.  I increased to 1.5 which didn't seem to affect performance much but this yields quite crisp cockpit.  The white box that people see also remains fixed not getting any larger.  At this setting, the texts on MFD screens on the hornet is just bonkers, super sharp.  I think the MFD texts might look even crisper than my 4KTV screen.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Supmua

[Yuma]

24 minutes ago, Supmua said:

Hmm, on the image with AvailableRuntimes you should have VarjoOpenXR.json there too.  In my case I have  both steamxr_win64, and VarjoOpenXR, and also oculus_openxr_64 (I have a Quest 2 and Rift).

Did you reboot the PC after all this?

Another thing to do is reset VB to its original state (Factory setting in Support page).

Also, are you running any other DCS mods that might be causing issues?

 

Did you reboot the PC after all this? (No I did not the first time, this time I did)

Another thing to do is reset VB to its original state (Factory setting in Support page). (I did it this time)

Also, are you running any other DCS mods that might be causing issues? (None that I can think of, I dont have no image color correction or anything like that. I do have a coordinates mod to grab of the F10 map and kneeboard stuff to help me, like checklist and stuff but nothing that I would think it would mess with APIs)

The good news:

The bad, I'm still getting double cursor and shaking.

[Supmua]

One thing to try short of reinstalling DCS is to do a full repair, then rename the Saved games\DCS.openbeta folder (so you don't lose it).  And try again.  If this still doesn't work then your problem is beyond my ability to help, perhaps Varjo tech support.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Supmua

[Yuma]

1 hour ago, Supmua said:

One thing to try short of reinstalling DCS is to do a full repair, then rename the Saved games\DCS.openbeta folder (so you don't lose it).  And try again.  If this still doesn't work then your problem is beyond my ability to help, perhaps Varjo tech support.

 

I did the full repair (File integrity in Steam) and nothing. I unistalled DCS and re-installed it, still have the issue. Going over to Discord to see if I can find a solution and then Varjo, I guess.