Double cursors while in VR (Varjo Aero)

[Davidbulman1]

Hello, Dcs in VR is now pretty much useless. I have 2 cursors, which are offset from each other by about 2 or 3 inches. Been this way since install.  Neither of them actually are on the button or switch. There seems to be a magical sweet spot between them and about 3 inches to the left. The Varjo support is pointing to DCS support. There are others with the same issue reported on other chats but can’t find any in the DCS chats. Any help would be appreciated. 

[Morphine]

Further to the OP post...

When using the default shortcuts (updater.exe or dcs.exe) to launch DCS, it now launches in a "Varjo Native" mode if you are using a Varjo headset, which results in 4 screens being rendered. The 4 screen "Native Mode" screens used only by the higher-end Varjo VR-3 and XR-3 headsets which contain 4 physical screens. The more common Varjo Aero only has 2 physical screens and therefore, doesn't use the extra 2 rendered screens. Rendering 4 screens is a massive hit on the fps. Therefore, the result is a very significant degradation of of performance for Varjo Aero users for no reason. Users can currently use the  "--force_steam_VR" command line argument after making a new shortcut, but they then lose the updater.exe shortcut auto check and is often causing frustration and performance hit for users.

In addition as per the OP post, there is a doubling of the in-game cursors and they are out of alignment. Even worse, the dimmer of the 2 cursors is the actual functional cursor which makes this "Varjo Native" mode useless (even if one wanted to put up with the poor fps).

Suggestion: Have DCS launch in the SteamVR mode as previously implemented (so that users don't have to use the "--force_steam_VR" command line) and let the small number of VR-3 & XR-3 users who want the "Varjo Native" mode use the "--force_varjo_VR" command line. Also fix the cursor alignment issue in the Varjo Native mode.

[utexgrad]

I am seeing this same issue with my Varjo Aero as of installing the latest update. Please fix this because I love your sim and I REALLY want to have a good experience with it using the Aero.

[dburne]

2 hours ago, utexgrad said:

I am seeing this same issue with my Varjo Aero as of installing the latest update. Please fix this because I love your sim and I REALLY want to have a good experience with it using the Aero.

Are you talking the latest Varjo update or DCS update? If the latest Varjo it is broken, need to go back to 3.5 if that is the case.

[utexgrad]

20 hours ago, dburne said:

Are you talking the latest Varjo update or DCS update? If the latest Varjo it is broken, need to go back to 3.5 if that is the case.

Sorry, I meant the DCS update. You are saying that Varjo Base 3.6 is what is causing the cursor issues in DCS?

[dburne]

1 hour ago, utexgrad said:

Sorry, I meant the DCS update. You are saying that Varjo Base 3.6 is what is causing the cursor issues in DCS?

I have no idea really, was just trying to clarify after which update - can you determine which update this first appeared after? I know Varjo Base 3.6 is broken and they are working on a fix, it caused a lot of issues but no idea if any of them affected the DCS issue you are having. My DCS is updated and I am not seeing the same issue, I have not however updated Varjo Base to 3.6, I am still on 3.5 because of all the issues.  Waiting until they get the fixed version released.

You could uninstall 3.6 if that is what you have, and download and clean install 3.5 and see if that fixes the issue if you wanted to go to the trouble.

Edit: Also are you running any Mods by chance? I am not , just the standard Open Beta and Steam VR with Varjo Base.

Edited June 25, 2022 by dburne

[utexgrad]

14 hours ago, dburne said:

I have no idea really, was just trying to clarify after which update - can you determine which update this first appeared after? I know Varjo Base 3.6 is broken and they are working on a fix, it caused a lot of issues but no idea if any of them affected the DCS issue you are having. My DCS is updated and I am not seeing the same issue, I have not however updated Varjo Base to 3.6, I am still on 3.5 because of all the issues.  Waiting until they get the fixed version released.

You could uninstall 3.6 if that is what you have, and download and clean install 3.5 and see if that fixes the issue if you wanted to go to the trouble.

Edit: Also are you running any Mods by chance? I am not , just the standard Open Beta and Steam VR with Varjo Base.

 

Oh, cool, OK. Yeah, I am running VB 3.6. I will try reverting back to 3.5 and see if the issue still occurs. I'm not running any mods inside of DCS or outside. I tried running with and without the OpenXR Toolkit and got the same results, so it's likely the version of base I'm using. 

UPDATE: Well, bummer. I reverted back to VB 3.5 and the same thing is happening. I'm also getting image ghosting in VB 3.6 and 3.5 where the carrier and planes will just fade in and out. I'm not seeing any of this type of behavior in IL-2 or MSFS 2020.

Edited June 26, 2022 by utexgrad

[dburne]

41 minutes ago, utexgrad said:

Oh, cool, OK. Yeah, I am running VB 3.6. I will try reverting back to 3.5 and see if the issue still occurs. I'm not running any mods inside of DCS or outside. I tried running with and without the OpenXR Toolkit and got the same results, so it's likely the version of base I'm using. 

UPDATE: Well, bummer. I reverted back to VB 3.5 and the same thing is happening. I'm also getting image ghosting in VB 3.6 and 3.5 where the carrier and planes will just fade in and out. I'm not seeing any of this type of behavior in IL-2 or MSFS 2020.

 

 

Did you clean the mod out and do a repair of DCS?

[Pappy]

So Morphine... How are you starting DCS in Steam VR and then switching to Varjo Base?

I tried that... I started DCS without having Varjo Base running... and I got a 2 window VR screen instead of 4.  Steam see's my headset but no video in the lenses.  So I turn on my Varjo base and the 2 screen VR windows freeze... however I can now see through the Varjo.  Steam windows freeze showing only 9 FPS and the Varjo see's the windows but is unable to move... frozen.

Can you give me a breakdown as to how you start your system to still have only 2 windows while having Varjo Base working also? (because Varjo will not work without the Base program running).  It seems to me that they are not compatible working together.  I did the ==force steam vr== in the shortcut and that works but there is severe warping as you turn your head... but there is no longer the trouble with 2 cursers and the so called ghosting is gone also.  The cause of the double cursers and the ghosting is definitely due to the 4 screens in the Varjo Base startup... and you can tell that as you are in the game by moving your head up when you see an AC disappear, and it will re-appear.

 

Thanks in advance, i'll be waiting for your reply.

[Jarhead0331]

I just set up my new Aero and I have this exact issue. Did you guys get it resolved and if so, how?

Thanks.

[Supmua]

9 hours ago, Jarhead0331 said:

I just set up my new Aero and I have this exact issue. Did you guys get it resolved and if so, how?

Thanks.

Double cursor or warping issue?  Check the Varjo's general guide thread, it's a bit of reading but will give you a better understanding of the current shortcomings of the headset and DCS and how to get around them.

[Jarhead0331]

28 minutes ago, Supmua said:

Double cursor or warping issue?  Check the Varjo's general guide thread, it's a bit of reading but will give you a better understanding of the current shortcomings of the headset and DCS and how to get around them.

The double cursor with the 4 desktop windows issue. 

[dburne]

39 minutes ago, Jarhead0331 said:

The double cursor with the 4 desktop windows issue. 

I remember seeing that happen at one time on my end but I just can not remember what the fix was. Has been a while since that happened to me.

[Jarhead0331]

13 minutes ago, dburne said:

I remember seeing that happen at one time on my end but I just can not remember what the fix was. Has been a while since that happened to me.

I found this thread, which seems to have some possible solutions: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/296619-varjo-aero-dcs-updates-causing-strange-issues/

Have not had the chance to try it out yet.

[Supmua]

2 hours ago, Jarhead0331 said:

The double cursor with the 4 desktop windows issue. 

This means you are using Varjo's OpenVR instead of Steam's OpenVR which isn't working correctly.  Currently, DCS needs to be forced to run SteamVR for normal operation so instead of running it directly from the DCS app you need to create a shortcut and add --force_steam_VR command to the exe file and always use that to run DCS.  This is all the in guide thread which is recommended.  Varjo Aero: General guide for new owners

And you're not done there, there's also a step to correct crosseye also.  Don't expect plug and play with DCS at current state.

It's been months and I don't understand why this problem still hasn't been corrected by Varjo or ED devs.  This is a huge turn off for new Aero owners.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Supmua

[Pappy]

1 hour ago, Supmua said:

This means you are using Varjo's OpenVR instead of Steam's OpenVR which isn't working correctly.  Currently, DCS needs to be forced to run SteamVR for normal operation so instead of running it directly from the DCS app you need to create a shortcut and add --force_steam_VR command to the exe file and always use that to run DCS.  This is all the in guide thread which is recommended.  Varjo Aero: General guide for new owners

And you're not done there, there's also a step to correct crosseye also.  Don't expect plug and play with DCS at current state.

It's been months and I don't understand why this problem still hasn't been corrected by Varjo or ED devs.  This is a huge turn off for new Aero owners.

 

 

 

Hello, and thanks for the reply.  I finally did get the DCS beta version working with "OpenComposite" . However I still cannot get DCS Stable ver. to accept the files without an error code.  Did not have to do Cross Eye correction though, so Not sure what the difference is regarding the Versions, they still use the same files.  I've cleaned the Mods out, but still get the error.

Thanks again for the reply!!

3 hours ago, Jarhead0331 said:

I found this thread, which seems to have some possible solutions: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/296619-varjo-aero-dcs-updates-causing-strange-issues/

Have not had the chance to try it out yet.

Hello, and thanks for the reply.  I finally did get the DCS beta version working with "OpenComposite" . However I still cannot get DCS Stable ver. to accept the files without an error code.  Did not have to do Cross Eye correction though, so Not sure what the difference is regarding the Versions, they still use the same files.  I've cleaned the Mods out, but still get the error.

Thanks again for the reply!!

3 hours ago, dburne said:

I remember seeing that happen at one time on my end but I just can not remember what the fix was. Has been a while since that happened to me.

Hello, and thanks for the reply.  I finally did get the DCS beta version working with "OpenComposite" . However I still cannot get DCS Stable ver. to accept the files without an error code.  Did not have to do Cross Eye correction though, so Not sure what the difference is regarding the Versions, they still use the same files.  I've cleaned the Mods out, but still get the error.

Thanks again for the reply!!

[Supmua]

With later versions of OpenComposite OpenXR you no longer need to do crosseye correction.  I can’t tell you anything about the stable DCS version because I always use the beta ones.

[Jarhead0331]

9 hours ago, Supmua said:

This means you are using Varjo's OpenVR instead of Steam's OpenVR which isn't working correctly.  Currently, DCS needs to be forced to run SteamVR for normal operation so instead of running it directly from the DCS app you need to create a shortcut and add --force_steam_VR command to the exe file and always use that to run DCS.  This is all the in guide thread which is recommended.  Varjo Aero: General guide for new owners

And you're not done there, there's also a step to correct crosseye also.  Don't expect plug and play with DCS at current state.

It's been months and I don't understand why this problem still hasn't been corrected by Varjo or ED devs.  This is a huge turn off for new Aero owners.

 

 

 

So I added the force Steam VR command and this did, in fact, solve the dual cursor/4 desktop windows issue, so thank you. However, it also tanked my performance and I'm now getting like 15 FPS +/-. Obviously, something else is wrong. I've looked into the cross-eye issue, but I do not have the autoexec.cfg. I tried creating one as indicated in the thread you linked, but I must be doing it wrong because when I load DCS, the debug tool does not appear.

Please help....this is starting to get frustrating. Thanks.

[Pappy]

24 minutes ago, Jarhead0331 said:

So I added the force Steam VR command and this did, in fact, solve the dual cursor/4 desktop windows issue, so thank you. However, it also tanked my performance and I'm now getting like 15 FPS +/-. Obviously, something else is wrong. I've looked into the cross-eye issue, but I do not have the autoexec.cfg. I tried creating one as indicated in the thread you linked, but I must be doing it wrong because when I load DCS, the debug tool does not appear.

Please help....this is starting to get frustrating. Thanks.

Hello... Go to this link and read through it...Varjo Aero: General guide for new owners. It will show you how to set it up with OpenXR and OpenComposite and ==Force_steam_vr

Should help you to get it working.  There is also a file at the end of the first post... download that and follow what he said in the post. Let me know how it goes

[Supmua]

40 minutes ago, Jarhead0331 said:

So I added the force Steam VR command and this did, in fact, solve the dual cursor/4 desktop windows issue, so thank you. However, it also tanked my performance and I'm now getting like 15 FPS +/-. Obviously, something else is wrong. I've looked into the cross-eye issue, but I do not have the autoexec.cfg. I tried creating one as indicated in the thread you linked, but I must be doing it wrong because when I load DCS, the debug tool does not appear.

Please help....this is starting to get frustrating. Thanks.

The autoexec.cfg can be found here C:\Users\yourname\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Config 

add this (command) to your autoexec.cfg and save 

force_cross_eye_recovery_tool = true

 

If you have a decent PC you definitely should not get 15-20 fps which is way too low.

Reduce Steam per-app resolution for DCS to around 3100-3200 horizontal pixels.  The Aero is a high res headset so supersampling in SteamVR is a no no and you want to downsample instead if anything.

Also try the VR preset in DCS setting first.  Once you get good fps you can increase the DCS graphics settings as needed.

 

If you don’t want to do any of the above then go OpenXR route, just copy the contents from the zip that I posted in that thread into the folder that houses DCS.exe then run DCS from the SteamVR shortcut you made to use OpenXR mode which doesn’t need crosseye correction.  You’ll also need to bind a button for VR recenter and use this in the game.

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Supmua

[Jarhead0331]

I think I worked around whatever the issue was by switching to openXR. The problem now is that although I am getting steady FPS above 45, there is a strange stutter. What could be causing that? i did not have that with openXR and my Reverb G2.

Thanks for all the help.

[Supmua]

Try playing with analytic window/performance analysis in VB, and play with different modes (vsync on, vsync off, 45 fps, etc.).  See if that helps.  OpenXR mode is usually pretty smooth for me.  For OpenVR mode I typically need to lock framerate to 45 to get very smooth gameplay.  Remember the Aero doesn’t have motion smoothing yet so take that into account if you are used to motion smoothing with other headsets.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Supmua

[Yuma]

I think I worked around whatever the issue was by switching to openXR. The problem now is that although I am getting steady FPS above 45, there is a strange stutter. What could be causing that? i did not have that with openXR and my Reverb G2.
Thanks for all the help.

See what it was happening to me. I also came from a G2:

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/page/9/#comment-5003879

@Supmua for some reason every time I lunch DCS via shortcut with Steamvr force command (OpenXR opencomposite) I get the cross eye alignment tool, is that supposed to be normal? Isn’t it supposed to be just the first time only?

[Supmua]

4 hours ago, Yuma said:

See what it was happening to me. I also came from a G2:

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/300065-varjo-aero-general-guide-for-new-owners/page/9/#comment-5003879

@Supmua for some reason every time I lunch DCS via shortcut with Steamvr force command (OpenXR opencomposite) I get the cross eye alignment tool, is that supposed to be normal? Isn’t it supposed to be just the first time only?

The crosseye window will keep popping up unless you create a lua file by clicking save (an interesting design choice).  Save isn’t available unless you make an initial adjustment.  You can quickly adjust one of the sliders and move it back to original position then click save, then the adjustment window will no longer appear after DCS is started (click reset if you mess up).  For the Aero I actually prefer to move R_out and L_out slightly higher than default positions for sharper image (increased stereo overlap, I think).  For me personally the left eye image is rendered slightly lower than the right eye on the horizontal plane so I adjusted it manually to make it even also.  You can do lots with this tool, for example increase stereo convergence to make things more 3Dish (at the expense of eye strain).  The created lua file will be hedy.lua for Steam OpenVR mode and oculus.lua for OpenXR mode (don’t ask me why), delete these files from the DCS save folder if you want to readjust the parameters after save.

If you use OpenXR there is no need for the crosseye tool unless you want to play with rendering parameters for each eye, so the crosseye command line can also be deleted from autoexec.cfg (or change true to false).  For OpenVR however you need the tool to swap top and bottom for each eye to correct positioning in VR especially after recenter.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Supmua

[Rosly]

For anyone looking to get proper cursor rendering while using quad view for Aero on OpenXR -> use multithreading version.
Single threading version renders game window in 2D with 4 views and this seems to be connected with improper cursor rendering in VR.

Multithreading seems to render differently and it only outputs single combined view in viewport which seems to be a working solution with proper cursor render in VR.