Kiowa as AFAC - "no permission"

[Ian Boys UK]

The Apache works well with the ground based JTAC but when trying to working with an airborne FAC with a laser, in this case the OH-58D Kiowa, I call him up and talk everything through and get "Laser On" and I fire a LOAL Hi Hellfire and then often get "Abort Abort Abort you have no permission" and he switches the laser off. 

Once I've had a laser stay on so I hit the first target but then he wouldn't lase the others even though he called "switch". Normally I get Abort on the first tgt.

Mission attached. AFAC is on 133 MHz. Any thoughts gratefully received.

AFAC Kiowa and Apache.miz

[Ian Boys UK]

Can anyone get the Kiowa to work as JTAC and lase the tgt?

[Tholozor]

Did you remember to call "Spot" and "In" after "Laser On"? Did he give you a "Cleared Hot"?

Edited August 12, 2022 by Tholozor

[Dragon1-1]

Unfortunately, DCS AFACs and JTACs can only use a procedure usually reserved for fixed wing. IRL, helicopter CAS is typically used with abbreviated 5-line request. The procedure should be a little different.

[Kharrn]

Kiowa FAC-A is working fine for me. But like @Tholozor stated, after "Laser on" command, he will respond "Lasing". Then YOU have to give the "Spot" and the "In".

You dont really have to spot the laser, wouldnt make much sense in a LOAL shot anyway, but the AI needs that reply. After that FAC-A should give you the "cleared hot".

If he still calls "abort" he might have given you a direction to make your attack and you are not in that direction. Happened to me before. Sometimes AI JTACs also bug-out and wont respond or do anything at all. Sometimes i had them "lasing" (verbal) but it took another minute till the laser was on. (I have a "testing" bed for that stuff set up on Nevada, SP only)

K

[Recluse]

I have had the same issue with a Mission Editor enabled Ground based JTAC (intermittently).  I switched to CTLD for my JTAC/AFAC needs.  Not as much immersion as there are no comms (I don't use SRS) but it works well (maybe too PERFECTLY, but I can live with that    )

Edited August 12, 2022 by Recluse

[Debonair]

I wanted to try the OP mission but I don't have the Falklands map. I have my own built JTAC/CTLD training missions based on Syria map. Not tried JTAC with the Apache yet tho, still understanding the occasions FMC kills me.

[Ian Boys UK]

9 hours ago, Tholozor said:

Did you remember to call "Spot" and "In" after "Laser On"? Did he give you a "Cleared Hot"?

 

OK, that's new to me as I never do that with ground JTAC. Let me give it a try ....

[Ian Boys UK]

Ah it worked, thank you so much!! I'd never come across this before, explains why I always got frustrated with drone AFACs etc. 

Really appreciate the help!

1 hour ago, Recluse said:

I have had the same issue with a Mission Editor enabled Ground based JTAC (intermittently).  I switched to CTLD for my JTAC/AFAC needs.  Not as much immersion as there are no comms (I don't use SRS) but it works well (maybe too PERFECTLY, but I can live with that    )

 

I find that can happen when the JTAC loses sight of a moving tgt, i.e. when it drives into a bit of a dip in the ground.

[Recluse]

1 hour ago, Ian Boys UK said:

Ah it worked, thank you so much!! I'd never come across this before, explains why I always got frustrated with drone AFACs etc. 

Really appreciate the help!

I find that can happen when the JTAC loses sight of a moving tgt, i.e. when it drives into a bit of a dip in the ground.

Note that, in my case, I have gotten the ABORT ABORT ABORT! even when doing the SPOT-->IN calls.   It may have been due to the JTAC losing sight of the target, but I have had it happen in cases where both JTAC and Targets were stationary.

[Ian Boys UK]

I wonder why? It's odd.

BTW using Spot In and an orbiting Reaper I have now successfully fired LOAL onto those targets too. So thank you again. Feels like a big step forward.

[Poptart]

One thing I dislike about the JTAC is that it doesn't tell you how many targets you are engaging. If you have a column of 4 tanks, it will not tell you beforehand the number of tanks. 

The JTAC will shift the laser to the new target when you kill the first target, but you have no idea how many hellfires to launch in LOAL if you can't see them.

[Poptart]

4 hours ago, Recluse said:

Note that, in my case, I have gotten the ABORT ABORT ABORT! even when doing the SPOT-->IN calls.   It may have been due to the JTAC losing sight of the target, but I have had it happen in cases where both JTAC and Targets were stationary.

I've noticed that in dynamic missions, they typically call abort if the target gets destroyed before you attack it or a friendly unit gets too close. 

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

Just tried JTAC in the Apache with the reaper. Works except that the reaper’s lasing is very inaccurate for moving targets (tanks in the Atlantic map in my test). Could not hit any moving tanks. The missiles just strike near them. Non moving targets are ok.