reported Bug Cause Found, Crazy Climb After Carrier Take Off

icecold951 · August 6, 2022

Wingmen now go full burners to 10k before rejoining. That has to use a ton, literally, of fuel. Extremely wasteful. So far, still testing, this happens in existing missions. Even if you recreate the flight. So far, in one freshly made mission, they rejoin as normal. It is the wing man tagged Test-1

Regular release of DCS, not a beta.

Update: This includes all AI aircraft, not just wingmen.

Resaving the mission as a new file doesn't fix it. Creating a new flight doesn't fix it.

It does not seem to happen to new missions, only old ones. Track 1 is an older mission, of about six months. Track 2 is a new basic mission. Takeoff is more normal. FYI, a similar post is in the mission editor section, seeing if I alone and experiencing this. No response so far.

New Edit: This but even affects aircraft in the Raven One DF campaign. Mission 1, just starting this after update, and Cajun is full burners to Angels 10.

1.trk

2.trk

Edited August 7, 2022 by icecold951

icecold951 · August 7, 2022

On pre-existing missions from before the update, my AI carrier planes, don't know about land based, all go max burner to 10k feet before rejoining. This is seriously wasteful of fuel, not to mention can break some mission aspects.

I'm concerned that making complex missions is going to be impossible if updates break older missions so completely. Tomorrow I am trying to resave it as an new file entirely, rather than save over the existing one. See if that helps. New missions do not do this.

Edit: These are two tracks showing the issue. track 1 is before the update, and no efforts of creating a new flight or resaving the mission have fixed it.

Track 2 is a new created mission, very basic, demonstrating proper takoff behavior.

1.trk 2.trk

Edited August 7, 2022 by icecold951

icecold951 · August 7, 2022

New update. Even new missions are producing this glitch.

icecold951 · August 7, 2022

New update. Even new missions are producing this glitch. I would dearly love to know if it is just me, as I am not seeing any mention of it. Experimenting on possible causes, including a possible reinstall.

jross194 · August 7, 2022

I just ran my scripted mission. Not seeing this - however, I've been micro-managing the routes/speeds/altitudes for some time. Only way to keep them under control. All done via lua with what I call "transition" points for climbing and descending.

icecold951 · August 7, 2022

23 minutes ago, jross194 said:

I just ran my scripted mission. Not seeing this - however, I've been micro-managing the routes/speeds/altitudes for some time. Only way to keep them under control. All done via lua with what I call "transition" points for climbing and descending.

If you could maybe test it without lua? Save the mission and then try creating a flight without that that takes off immediately. I do that too, with in game WPs. It ignores them until it reaches altitude. It may or may not reproduce in a new mission. I saw it reproduce once. I've tried recreating the flight, resaving on a new mission file, and still.....

I just did a clean install, completely removed everything and didn't touch a setting. It still produced this result in Rave One, the new campaign that just released.

icecold951 · August 9, 2022

New update: I have now reproduced this on two separate computers. I can't be the only one getting this. So it is getting missed or ignored?

icecold951 · August 9, 2022

Okay, new update. I am getting this same glitch on two different computers.

icecold951 · August 10, 2022

This is a video of the glitch, describing exactly what is happening. Using Raven One DF M01

jross194 · August 10, 2022

Yeah, they are really NOT efficient when it come to maneuvering. It doesn't look much better now that I've watched it more (since seeing this thread).

So, I try to keep things _really_ simple in the case of: depart airport; fly a simple route; wait for some event; blow something up; RTB. If - IF - I keep the initial climb such they don't have to make a big turn, while climbing, they do fine. I stay under about, oh, 30 degrees. Otherwise they spin around seemingly waiting for -2 to get into position, before resuming the climb. If I make it a 'gentle' turn the do okay.

I insert what I call "transition" points for the climbs, no closer to the airport than about 25 miles (with the less than 30 degree turn above). It seems they do their own thing until about 20 miles after takeoff and you can't change that. So my routing for them looks, roughly, like this:

Home -----> T-Point(alitude, speed) ----> Waypoint[1](alt,speed) -----> waypoint[2]...etc. Do the reverse after bombing - they could be at any altitude. It is tedious but only have to get it right once.

And I've given up on getting the AI flights to refuel in an efficient manner for instance: it take 10+ minutes for a flight of 2 Vipers to fill up (only about 10 minutes after departing), even when they start within 10 miles of the tanker. They're not real good a 'joining' on the tanker in an expeditious manner. So, I just don't do it (except on the return leg but timing isn't an issue then).

Edited August 10, 2022 by jross194
Clarity

icecold951 · August 11, 2022

This is an actual video of my issue with the full afterburner climbing. It is from Raven one DF campaign, mission 1. Note, this isn't normal behavior with older missions pre update, and new missions.

Edited August 11, 2022 by icecold951

Exorcet · August 11, 2022

I only tested on a new mission so far, but I had no issue with either a player lead flight or AI lead flight. However I also tested on OB, I have not updated stable to the latest because I have missions that are still being worked on and I don't like to switch versions before in progress stuff is finished.

EDIT

I do see the issue in the DS20 mission you posted in the other thread, even in OB. This is weird as I usually place a takeoff waypoint to help the AI form up quickly and they tend to follow it. I tried adding one to the mission and it was ignored entirely. I'll have to play with it more later on. I know the AI can bug out around waypoints, but I've only seen it over land.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Exorcet

icecold951 · August 11, 2022

1 hour ago, Exorcet said:

I only tested on a new mission so far, but I had no issue with either a player lead flight or AI lead flight. However I also tested on OB, I have not updated stable to the latest because I have missions that are still being worked on and I don't like to switch versions before in progress stuff is finished.

EDIT

I do see the issue in the DS20 mission you posted in the other thread, even in OB. This is weird as I usually place a takeoff waypoint to help the AI form up quickly and they tend to follow it. I tried adding one to the mission and it was ignored entirely. I'll have to play with it more later on. I know the AI can bug out around waypoints, but I've only seen it over land.

I'd recommend finishing within the update. If the update breaks them like it did mine, better before all that work. I got four campaigns possibly ruined.

As for the takeoff, I usually have the initial leg slow to help trailing planes catch up. In any event, the leader never climbs like that. And it certainly didn't when I made it. ED really needs to convince it to update the missions, after a DCS update.

And then I found the bug existing within a paid for campaign Raven One DF. I'm in their forum page desperately trying to get someone to see if they get the same results on their own, and tell me one way or another. No one else so far seems to report it. But unless you pay attention, you may not notice it. But two completely different computers with fresh DCS installs show this.

I've even posted videos of that mission.

Edited August 11, 2022 by icecold951

icecold951 · August 12, 2022

This is a track of my previously reported afterburner climbs to 10k feet. In this track and mission file, the flight leader, Diamond 1-1 Raider, is an AI flight lead. He burns to 10, before returning to the assigned WP1 altitude of 6k. This is a completely new mission post the update of DCS.

MW04.miz 2.trk

Exorcet · August 12, 2022

Made another attempt to reproduce by loading an older mission, this time in stable (but not the latest version). I was unable to recreate it. I probably won't see anything unless I update. Troubling that it showed up in the OB test though as that would mean it's not a passing issue.

icecold951 · August 12, 2022

53 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

Made another attempt to reproduce by loading an older mission, this time in stable (but not the latest version). I was unable to recreate it. I probably won't see anything unless I update. Troubling that it showed up in the OB test though as that would mean it's not a passing issue.

I just created a new post involving it happening to a new created mission. Tomorrow I plan to closely examine the previous mission that I modified to do mission 04, ensure it wasn't in that one. If not, I'll examine the changes made, starting with weather.

If I can get someone with Raven One DF to examine the first mission and see if it happens, that will answer a lot. So far no one has responded.

icecold951 · August 12, 2022

Flying KENNY from a YouTube channel is reporting he saw exactly this himself in tacview involving DF M05, and possibly other missions.

He may directly report it himself here.

Video involving the chat. Video not related to the event, just where we discussed it

Exorcet · August 12, 2022

14 hours ago, icecold951 said:

If I can get someone with Raven One DF to examine the first mission and see if it happens, that will answer a lot. So far no one has responded.

I don't own it unfortunately, but at least it seems like you've found someone else who does. You should definitely try to get the other pilot to add to this bug report.

icecold951 · August 12, 2022

8 minutes ago, Exorcet said:

I don't own it unfortunately, but at least it seems like you've found someone else who does. You should definitely try to get the other pilot to add to this bug report.

I've already suggested he do so and posted a link to that discussion on YouTube.

Shortly I go home and can directly test my suspensions. I at least seem to have it narrowed down to a working mission as the basis for one bugged.

That narrows the search for a cause.

icecold951 · August 12, 2022

My assessment appears correct. Creating a post for the devs. Probably will get merged into this one. But wish it to be fully visible and noticed, including tracks, miz files, and a youtube video of the process.

icecold951 · August 12, 2022

This may get merged into another section, but creating it to be visible to the devs.

Through testing, I have determined that the crazy afterburner climbs to 10k are related to the weather preset system. It is most obvious in missions made post public update. Any mission with rain appears to trigger the bug. Take the rain away, and the bug goes away. Missions pre update, with limited testing so far, seem affected no matter what. But probably the cause is related.

Uploading the relevant mission and tracks. Also including a youtube video of my experiment process in this. Forgive the video quality, as I am not a youtube content creator and my software doesn't record DCS well. It still shows the relevant information.

MW03.miz MW03 Raining.miz 03 working.trk 03 10k feet climb AB.trk

icecold951 · August 14, 2022

As far as older missions, not all appear to be affected. Possibly ones created further back for some reason get affected. It could even be related to certain maps.

DS20 is affected by the bug, with so far no fixing it. Meanwhile DB19 remains unaffected. Both were created pre update, though DS20 is six months older at least.

DS20.miz DB19.miz