Deployable decoys

[JOYFUL_CLOVR]

I was rewatching the announcement trailer and something caught my eye. While I understand that decoys will likely not come with the initial EA release, does this mean they may be implemented at some point?

[Zahnatom]

31 minutes ago, JOYFUL_CLOVR said:

I was rewatching the announcement trailer and something caught my eye. While I understand that decoys will likely not come with the initial EA release, does this mean they may be implemented at some point?

they should get implemented... its a rather unique thing 

[Dragon1-1]

It's not really unique, Hornet is supposed to get the GEN-X decoy, and the Viper supports that, as well. ED said it's missing required data, though. Towed decoys had been planned for a while, although being a core feature, it'll probably take a while for them to be implemented.

[QuiGon]

As @Dragon 1-1 said, these things are not that unique on modern fighter jets and our DCS Viper is also supposed to get a towed decoy, the ALE-50 Towed Decoy as you can see on the Viper roadmap:

Pictures of them deployed are pretty rare though. Check this if you want to see a deployed decoy on a Eurofighter: https://theaviationist.com/2012/04/16/towed-decoy/

Edited August 29, 2022 by QuiGon

[Zahnatom]

5 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

It's not really unique, Hornet is supposed to get the GEN-X decoy, and the Viper supports that, as well. ED said it's missing required data, though. Towed decoys had been planned for a while, although being a core feature, it'll probably take a while for them to be implemented.

These ones are integrated though

[Spectre11]

As ECM simulation in DCS is crude anyway, it might be more the kind of visual gimmick, maybe enabling the jamming function when deployed and maybe even increased effectivness, when combined with onboard jamming.

[Dragon1-1]

There's one thing those can help with in DCS: HOJ. You can trick a HOJ missile with a towed decoy by simply using it to jam instead of your internal jammer. There's a good chance it'll be blown off, but you'll be safe, at least if you did everything else right.

[Spectre11]

In theory yes, question is whether DCS can model this and if not yet, whether it will be modeled in the future.

[Dragon1-1]

HOJ already works in DCS. All it would take to implement spoofing that would be to force the missile to guide on the decoy whenever in HOJ mode. That's probably quite doable.

[Spectre11]

I know that HOJ exists already, but is it possible to move the jammer to a distance from the aircraft? I think only ED could answer this question, or 3rd party devs developing offboard jammers. I know GEN X is planned or have it been implemented and is working already?

Edited September 1, 2022 by Spectre11

[Dragon1-1]

Well, ED listed GEN X as needing more info, but they're evidently intent on adding it at some point. I think that either moving the jammer source or writing a hack to make HOJ guide on decoys are possible.

[MRTX]

The thing is that the only decoys currently integrated into the Eurofighter are the "Cartridge Countermeasure 55 mm Typhoon IR Decoy" (basically a big flare with a programmable IR signature) and "BriteCloud" by Selex (your modern equivalent to GEN-X).

Keep in mind that BriteCloud is very modern (it came to market in 2014) and therefore classified when it comes to most of its performance numbers and operating principles. Another important thing to consider is the fact that it hasn't been adopted by any Eurofighter user nation. Overall this will most likely mean that BriteCloud won't be integrated into the DCS Eurofighter for a long time. 

So the only thing that realistically can be integrated into the DCS Eurofighter will be the mentioned IR decoys.

[Dragon1-1]

Well, 2014 is outside the timeframe of our EF2000, at any rate. The programmable flare sounds like a cool addition, though. 

[Spectre11]

15 hours ago, MRTX said:

The thing is that the only decoys currently integrated into the Eurofighter are the "Cartridge Countermeasure 55 mm Typhoon IR Decoy" (basically a big flare with a programmable IR signature) and "BriteCloud" by Selex (your modern equivalent to GEN-X).

Keep in mind that BriteCloud is very modern (it came to market in 2014) and therefore classified when it comes to most of its performance numbers and operating principles. Another important thing to consider is the fact that it hasn't been adopted by any Eurofighter user nation. Overall this will most likely mean that BriteCloud won't be integrated into the DCS Eurofighter for a long time. 

So the only thing that realistically can be integrated into the DCS Eurofighter will be the mentioned IR decoys.

Plus Saab BOL-510 Chaff dispensers, modified BOL-IR and the Ariel Towed Radio Frequency Decoys. The flares itself are not programmable, but it's possible to fit different types of flares and the dispenser can distinguish itself between the flares and use the appropriate type in automated counter measures programmes.

[Lynnux]

On 9/1/2022 at 8:13 PM, Spectre11 said:

I know that HOJ exists already, but is it possible to move the jammer to a distance from the aircraft? I think only ED could answer this question, or 3rd party devs developing offboard jammers. I know GEN X is planned or have it been implemented and is working already?

 

HOJ works with two aircraft, so why shouldn't it work with the decoy ? Especially since it's a matter of programming, not mounting a jammer in a decoy.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Lynnux

[Dragon1-1]

It seems the biggest obstacle to them right now is the need for new refueling hose physics, which will also apply to towing line physics (it's one and the same problem, basically implementing ropes into the sim). This makes a lot of sense, a towed decoy is, well, towed, not mounted on a fixed bar like the current basket before contact.

[MRTX]

I could definitely be mistaken, but doesn't the SU-25T have a towable IR decoy with the nescessary physics?

[Mike_Romeo]

On 10/29/2022 at 11:45 AM, MRTX said:

SU-25T have a towable IR decoy with the nescessary physics?

No, its just a big IR lamp mounted on the tail

[okopanja]

On 8/29/2022 at 1:42 PM, QuiGon said:

As @Dragon 1-1 said, these things are not that unique on modern fighter jets and our DCS Viper is also supposed to get a towed decoy, the ALE-50 Towed Decoy as you can see on the Viper roadmap:

Pictures of them deployed are pretty rare though. Check this if you want to see a deployed decoy on a Eurofighter: https://theaviationist.com/2012/04/16/towed-decoy/

 

F-16CG, shot down by 3rd r.d. 250th r.b. in 1999 was flying with ALE-50 deployed.

[Dragon1-1]

This doesn't mean a thing. We're getting a mid-2000s Eurofighter retrofitted in mid-2010s with early Meteor capability. This is pretty common with real aircraft, and I'm pretty sure it'll be the only feature that late. That is, of course, if Meteor is actually a thing in first place. I don't think it's 100% confirmed they'll be able to do it.

[Cunning_Raven]

45 minutes ago, Dragon1-1 said:

This doesn't mean a thing. We're getting a mid-2000s Eurofighter retrofitted in mid-2010s with early Meteor capability. This is pretty common with real aircraft, and I'm pretty sure it'll be the only feature that late. That is, of course, if Meteor is actually a thing in first place. I don't think it's 100% confirmed they'll be able to do it.

[JOYFUL_CLOVR]

1 hour ago, Dragon1-1 said:

This doesn't mean a thing. We're getting a mid-2000s Eurofighter retrofitted in mid-2010s with early Meteor capability. This is pretty common with real aircraft, and I'm pretty sure it'll be the only feature that late. That is, of course, if Meteor is actually a thing in first place. I don't think it's 100% confirmed they'll be able to do it.

It's already confirmed that the meteor will be released.

[unknown]

3 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

That is, of course, if Meteor is actually a thing in first place. I don't think it's 100% confirmed they'll be able to do it.

Q: What will Early Access include on initial release?

A: Early Access will include a fully flyable, fully clickable and fully functional Eurofighter with air to air capabilities only. This will include a fully functional flight model and Eurojet EJ200 engines (+ hydraulics, etc.), basic and needed Avionics (at the least), functional radar, functional air to air weapons specific to the Eurofighter, such as the Meteor and IRIS-T short-range missiles and the gun in air to air capability. Early Access will of course include a manual as well and the other set of requisite features expected from a Heatblur module.

 

 

[QuiGon]

19 hours ago, Бойовий Сокіл said:

The Typhoon we are getting is around 2021.

Uhm, source? I've never heard or saw such a statement from the devs.

[QuiGon]

2 hours ago, Бойовий Сокіл said:

It has METEOR and latest gen Helmet. 

Yeah, but that doesn't mean the Typhoon will be from a certain point in time. It will have some older systems/functions and some newer ones. Some might call it a Frankentyphoon, but IRL the Typhoons out there have very different combinations of software and hardware as well. So just because it has Meteor doesn't mean it will have all other systems that came after 2020, unlike your comment indicates.

Edited January 25, 2023 by QuiGon