Query regarding stations and Pre planned points for Hornet JDAMS

[markturner1960]

Hi, I am having a little trouble getting my head around how this works........

In the MFD, there are PP1 through to PP6 available. Following Chucks guide, he uses PP1 ( Page 399) for 4 separate targets on 4 separate stations. 

What does PP1 signify in this case? And why would he not use any of the other other PP slots? Why are they there, if you dont need more than one for 4 bombs on 4 different targets? 

How does it work if you have 2 bombs on a rack on each station? 

Thanks! 

[Harker]

You can use any PP number, there's no difference between them. You just have 6 options for different coordinates.

Target coordinates (PP and TOO) are individual for every station. You cannot copy PP coordinates from station 3 to station 7, for example. So, PP1 for station 3 is different from PP1 for station 7. Each station has its own set of PP/TOO coordinates.

As for having two bombs on the station, they'll work the same, all that matters is the station programming at the time of release. You treat the two bombs separately, in terms of programming.

[markturner1960]

Hi Harker, thanks for the quick reply. It partially answers my query, however, I still dont understand why there is 6 options? When PP1 can be various different co ordinates. Like in your example in the answer  - PP1 for 3 is different from that for 7. What are the numbers after the PP for then ? Why do you need another 5 options? 

As to my mind, you would simply call them PP ( Pre planned points) without the numeric after and if you had 4, they would be 1 through 4, if you had 2, 1 through 2 etc. 

So each bomb can have its own target... Say I had a double rack on station 2 and wanted to program the two bombs for 2 different targets, I can step between each station using the step button, but how do I program each bomb individually? Would this be where the PP2 option would be used? 

Sorry, if I am missing something obvious here.....!! 

 

For example, say I took 4 J82's.....I wanted to use 2 for two differing pre planned targets and save the other two for possible targets of opportunity - how should I best program and allocate mode 

Edited August 31, 2022 by markturner1960

[Recluse]

1 hour ago, markturner1960 said:

So each bomb can have its own target... Say I had a double rack on station 2 and wanted to program the two bombs for 2 different targets, I can step between each station using the step button, but how do I program each bomb individually? Would this be where the PP2 option would be used?

YES

1 hour ago, markturner1960 said:

For example, say I took 4 J82's.....I wanted to use 2 for two differing pre planned targets and save the other two for possible targets of opportunity - how should I best program and allocate mode

One JDAM per station:

Program 2 stations for PP and enter the coordinates on PP1 for each station

Program 2 Stations for TOO and with one of those Stations Selected, feed the coordinates to it with TPOD/WPDSG/HUD etc..  STEP and repeat for the other TOO station

2 JDAM per station:

Set one station for PP and program the Coordinates for PP1 and PP2

Set one station for TOO and with the station and TOO1 or TOO2 selected, feed the coordinates to them when they are respectively selected.

 

In both scenarios, when you drop, you need to be VERY CAREFUL about which Station (and -1 or -2 coordinate) you have selected when you drop.  I don't recall the logic by which DCS willl step through the stations upon each release, except it is always different than I expect it to be

Edited August 31, 2022 by Recluse

[Tholozor]

1 hour ago, markturner1960 said:

*snip*

Normally, PP missions would be loaded off the data cartridge, determined well in advance before takeoff. This gives a single aircraft more potential targets in a combat area, as they're more than likely not operating alone. Let's say, for example, that your PP1 is a bunker, but when you get to the target area, the bunker is already destroyed by other assets. What then? Waste valuable time/fuel and spend even more extra time punching in new coordinates, or run the risk of faulty sensor data on a TOO coordinate? Luckily the intel boys planned ahead and gave you more alternate targets that are just as viable as the first. Or, if you have a flight of multiple aircraft, they can have the same PP targets in the event of malfunctions or target sorting.

Now currently, in DCS, considerations like these aren't as much of a factor as they are compared to real-world application, but there's lots of reasoning behind why it's set up the way it is.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Tholozor

[markturner1960]

Great, I am getting there now! One final clarification if I may...In the scenario of 8 bombs on 4 racks, lets assume they are all Pre Planned. I can only drop 4 in one pass. 

So for 8 different targets, I would have 4 bombs using PP1 and 4 using PP2 .........

Station 1 Bomb 1 PP1, Station 1 Bomb 2 PP2, Station 2 Bomb 1 PP1, Station 2 Bomb 2 PP2.......etc. In this scenario, how would I set the Quantity ? 4 bombs to drop first pass, one from each station, so would I box all stations for each pass? This would also be the same if there was one bomb on each station, correct? 

Thank you for your patience! 

[Tholozor]

You don't necessarily need to use QTY. After dropping one bomb, the next station in the release order is selected. Release one from each station on PP1, then switch each station to PP2 as it steps back through the release order.

STA8 PP1
STA2 PP1
STA7 PP1
STA3 PP1
STA8 PP2
STA2 PP2
STA7 PP2
STA3 PP2

[markturner1960]

Thanks, i presume in your example, that would be 8 individual pickles? Would you use the GTY option if you wanted to pickle 4 bombs at once? 

[Rescue]

14 minutes ago, markturner1960 said:

Thanks, i presume in your example, that would be 8 individual pickles? Would you use the GTY option if you wanted to pickle 4 bombs at once? 

Yes.

With QTY you don't select a number like dumb bombs but you select the stations you also want to drop bombs from.

[Harker]

To go back to the original question (since I typed this hours ago and forgot to post it), IRL, PP coordinates are loaded in the jet, they're usually not entered by the pilot via the UFC. I don't know how that loading process works, but it's possible that you can load up to 6 PP targets and they populate all stations (even if the different stations *can* hold different PPs, maybe they're loaded with the same at the beginning), so you need to select your desired PP target for each station.

Another, better reason, is that you might want to drop two bombs from the same station at different targets, so bomb A to PP1 and bomb B to PP2.

Or you might want to load multiple different targets at the beginning of the mission and then choose, based on the situation.

Of course, I don't consider it reasonable for a pilot to manually enter 6 PPs for 4 stations, but if you consider that targets are loaded to the jet IRL, then the system makes more sense.

[markturner1960]

Excellent, thanks all

[markturner1960]

I have another query.........

Each station needs to be programmed individually for Mode, fusing and release type, correct? So if you had 4 bombs on 4 stations, all with differing fuzing, modes etc, you would need to do 4 separate programming inputs? 

Hopefully this will be the last ! 

 

Thanks

[Recluse]

Hmmm...   MODE (PP/TOO) yes, but honestly, I have always boxed the J8x on the Stores Page, set the release type and Efuz  and it seems to apply to all stations without further setting.

 

Seems to be the case whenever there are multiple stations with the same type of weapon, Release type and Fuzing apply to all when set.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Recluse

[markturner1960]

Sure, makes sense...thanks