Night Flying/NVGs

[Tango]

Hi,

 

I've been trying out night flying in this thing using NVGs. :huh::doh: and :helpsmilie:

 

First off, anyone with RW experience of NVGs able to comment on BS rendition of this?

 

Second, on the feeling of having been blinkered?

 

I'm happy flying instruments - that's not an issue. My issue is not hitting stuff when flying low or landing.

 

How do you deal with loss of spatial awarness as it relates to airspeed? The kinds of visual cues you use to fly during the day just aren't there at night and I find I'm flying faster than I'd like to.

 

In the real-world, is the Ka-50 a day attack helicopter only or is it meant to be employed for night time ops as well? I understand the laser designator /Shkval don't operate well at night?

 

How bright/sensitive do you make the NVGs? I find I have it set really low so I can still read captions etc.. but find it could be brighter for better outside views. Is there a way to dim the alert panels lighting, autopilot mode lights etc..?

 

I see there is a dimmer on the overhead, but it appears not to work (despite showing it is interactive)?

 

Best regards,

Tango.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Tango

[EvilBivol-1]

I keep all cockpit lights off when using NVGs and also turn down the ABRIS brightness to minimize the ambient light. I can then turn up the NVG brightness all or almost all the way up and generally see pretty well.

 

I have noticed in a lot of screenshots and videos that people are keeping their instrument backlights on. I guess this is because they use the "cheat" start-up, which turns on the instrument lights along with all of the outside lights and dust protectors - all things you may want to turn off in flight, depending on conditions.

 

In reality, you should be using the blue tint NVG-compatible cockpit light with your NVGs, but I find that I can see the instruments well enough without it.

[Buznee]

how do you adjust the brightness of the NVG?

[geogob]

Yep, don't fly with the instrument lighting on. Turn it of. You can always quickly turn the instrument lights back on with the cyclic push-button if you need. You may also want to turn on the night vision lighting and dim it as much as possible.

 

You should have enough light to read the instruments below the NVG in the light blue light. I would also dim the HUD and put it in night mode. Dim the Abris AMMS as well.

Anything that raises ambient light and washes out the NVG should be avoided.

 

As for the Shkval and laser designator/rangefinder, I'm still trying to figure out how to use them under low light conditions. I manage to use the system with some limited success at dusk or dawn, but with very poor rate of success or efficiency under night skys.

I tend to turn the contrast way up on the IT-23 to be able to track targets visually, but I can't get the Shkval nor the weapon systems to lock on targets - that even if I can clearly see them.

 

I think good briefing/video note on night operation and night weapon usage would be very useful. ;)

 

Finally, regarding night flying and loss of spatial awareness, this is a problem true to life. It's the reality of night time visual flying. I'm not a pilot myself, but I have a few friends who are pilots and I packed hundred of hours of flying with them on the right seat... most of these hours during night time.

 

Losing most of your visual landmarks make VFR flying very difficult. Most of the area here is fairly flat, but we have some low mountains not far.

The only time I got a real scare flying was during a touch and go on a runway fully cross wind and surrounded by mountains. It was a dark cloudy night with isolated rain showers. That time we really when out of my comfort zone (and it was the last time I flew with that guy... never again). I had my eyes on the VFR charts and the altimeter and I somewhat felt like a GPWS beeping and saying "pull up".

 

All that to say that the feeling I have during night flight in BS around mountains (without NVG) is similar. The loss of orientation is very close to the one in real life.

Instrument wise, the ADI and altimeter are your friends. You should scan the instruments continuously, always panning back to the ADI between them (assuming you are not using the HUD). Be weary of autopilot when flying around high ground.

 

Outside, city lights and mountains silhouettes with dusk sky behind are very good horizon indicators. Keep an eye open for references like these.

 

I would practice night flight without NVGs a lot before going into night operations. Try flying patterns first, then try to fly some routes over flat surface. Finally fly some routes and do some maneuvering around high grounds. It would be nice to have a good VFR map of the region depicted in BS. Would help navigating a bit. The Abris moving map is nice, but it's not quite like having hands on a map.

Edited January 5, 2009 by geogob

[geogob]

how do you adjust the brightness of the NVG?

 

On the Targeting Display Control Panel (below the IT-23 monitor), you have 3 knobs. Form left to right, Helmet Mounted System brightness, IT-23 monitor brightness, IT-23 monitor contrast.

 

It would be the first one.

 

 

Page 2-54, figure 2-40, point 1.

[Melbatoast]

Hi,

 

 

First off, anyone with RW experience of NVGs able to comment on BS rendition of this?

 

Second, on the feeling of having been blinkered?

 

 

I've used NVGs quite often, and the rendition of them in DCS is eerily accurrate. They help quite a lot but certainly don't turn night into day. And yes, you feel badly blinkered and have no real depth perception.

 

I should qualify that by saying the NVGs I use are probably on the crappy side, but maybe they're all pretty similar. The portrayal in DCS is the most accurate reproduction of my experience I've seen in a computer game.

[AlphaOneSix]

I guess you could say I have real world experience. I am an Mi-17 crew chief with hundreds of hours (450-ish?) of NVG flight time in Afghanistan. In general, I think the NVGs are well done. I have a few issues, however. When looking through goggles, your view of the world is a circle, not an oval. This is a very minor issue as far as I'm concerned, but it is an issue. Also, you can read things in the cockpit through the goggles, which is not possible in real life without refocusing the goggles. This is a bigger issue for me, but I can live with it since there is no "focus" knob in the game for the goggles. In practice, you focus the goggles for distant objects, and you look under the goggles to see things in the cockpit. If you looked through the goggles at anything in the cockpit, it should be completely out of focus. This would force you to look at instruments by looking under the goggles, just like real pilots do.

 

Two things that I do absolutely like about the goggles that make them one of the best representations I've ever seen in a game is the fact that you can look under them, and the way that non-NVG compatible lighting "washes out" the goggles.

 

Another huge factor when using goggles is the amount of moonlight and starlight. I don't know if this is modeled in the game at all, but the percentage of illumination is a very big factor in how well the goggles work. So far, I think the game only models one level of illumination at night, but I have not really tested it out. I'm not too concerned about night lght levels, since the Ka-50 is not a real night fighter. I'm not even concerned about it when the AH-64A module arrives either, since it uses mostly FLIR and not light amplification.

[diveplane]

some 1 should make a training clip how to set up night flying in the ka50.

with nvgs.

[bradmick]

I'm not even concerned about it when the AH-64A module arrives either, since it uses mostly FLIR and not light amplification.

 

 

Heheh, neither are we. I got a whopping 6 hours of goggles during the course. FLIR is pretty solid, though I can say legacy FLIR is terrible versus MTADS. Which I really can't wait to get to fly a bird with MTADS, all I've seen so far are videos, but holy crap the difference is rediculous.

 

Brad

[Tango]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the feedback!

 

I don't leave any lighting on except for the blue lighting (except during start-up and shutdown when I'm not using the NVG), and do use the instruments. I love instrument flight! :D I didn't realize just how much I looked outside... :huh:

 

This is a bigger issue for me, but I can live with it since there is no "focus" knob in the game for the goggles. In practice, you focus the goggles for distant objects, and you look under the goggles to see things in the cockpit.

Focus issues aside, do you adjust the NVG brightness to the extent that caution lighting etc.. wash out and are unreadable (even assuming for a moment that you had re-focused the NVG to read them)? I find to get a really good view out the window, I need to wash out things like the AP mode buttons, the caution panel, etc..

 

I've also discovered the landing light gives a good visual reference for manouvering at low altitude at night.

 

I'm not sure what effect lighting outside the cockpit has on the NVGs, but I noticed the ABRIS has a subtle impact (but the Shkval doesn't???), so I turn that down as far as possible.

 

Don't forget the switch for changing the contrast of the on-screen markers, text etc.. - it changes it from white to black which makes it much easier to see in certain situations.

 

Best regards,

Tango.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Tango

[AlphaOneSix]

Focus issues aside, do you adjust the NVG brightness to the extent that caution lighting etc.. wash out and are unreadable (even assuming for a moment that you had re-focused the NVG to read them)?

 

I've never seen or used a set of goggles that had a brightness adjustment, and my understanding of the OVN-1 goggles used in the game also do not have any kind of brightness adjustment (at least real OVN-1 goggles don't). A completely NVG compatible cockpit includes filters on the caution warning lights that prevent them from causing glare or washing out your goggles. But you still won't be able to read them through the goggles, you'd have to look uder (around? over?) the goggles to read the light if you didn't have it already memorized (a good thing to do for night flying anyway).

[AlphaOneSix]

Heheh, neither are we. I got a whopping 6 hours of goggles during the course. FLIR is pretty solid, though I can say legacy FLIR is terrible versus MTADS. Which I really can't wait to get to fly a bird with MTADS, all I've seen so far are videos, but holy crap the difference is rediculous.

 

Brad

 

Right before I left the Army, our front seaters were starting to wear NVGs at night to supplement the TADS FLIR (old crappy FLIR), while the back seater only used the PNVS. This was in the 101st, and I don't know if other units were doing anything similar. I also don't know how much NVG's are really used in practice, but they do make spotting tracers a lot easier! :D

[bradmick]

I have heard of units doing that actually, but in general the pilots gripe. At least that's what my IP's were saying. Neither seat liked giving up the overall advantages of the FLIR for tracer spotting. I didn't mind flying NVG's actually, I hated not having any of my Symbology, but the fact that night became like Day was just awesome. I was cruising around one night, as comfy as can be, happened to be a crappy FLIR night, but an awesome goggles night because of the moon illume, scared my IP because I was outside of his comfort zone, heheh. Good times.

 

Brad

[Jagr]

I'm not a pilot but I'm been in an around helos flown with NVG's. In short, NVG's are the cause of a lot of accidents. Flying helo's low at night is a dangerous job and requires a lot of training for the crews. Adding darkness and NVG's with tunnel vision and distorted depth perception requires an enormous amount of training..add enemy activity and you see the pattern..

 

I cannot believe this KA-50 was considered a cutting edge attack helo with no FLIR/Thermal Imager targeting capability..thats insane..

[Frederf]

The Ka-50 is certainly a day attack/scout helo with limited night capability.

 

Recently I have been redoing the first 5 or so missions in the Deployment campaign (oops, vulnerable is a hardcore option for logbook!). The Alarm! mission went a lot better now that I have a way to get some light in the cockpit to at least start the aircraft. (Ctrl+Shift+E x 2, K : this gives you battery + cockpit flood light). Before I couldn't seen enough to even turn on the battery!

 

Setting the NVGs way up and all the cockpit lights off including the blue NVG lighting (or at least dimming the blue flood very very low) gives you a real ability to see. I even shot a BTR on the insurgents side from the start to finish.

 

So far I haven't been able to get the dimming knobs (near the rear wall on the right panel) to work except for the NVG flood knob. I have a feeling that the ADIs or panel lighting dimmers are non-functional :(

 

Also has anyone managed to get the cockpit lighting switch on the Cyclic to do anything? I figure this would make a great one-touch button to toggle between NVG lighting and task lighting for heads-down in-cockpit operations but I can't seem to make it do anything.

[ZaltysZ]

Also has anyone managed to get the cockpit lighting switch on the Cyclic to do anything? I figure this would make a great one-touch button to toggle between NVG lighting and task lighting for heads-down in-cockpit operations but I can't seem to make it do anything.

 

Don't turn cockpit lightning on via wall panel. If that switch is in off position, switch on cyclic will work.

[Frederf]

Huh, that's weird. I'll give it a go.

[Jona33]

There is a way you can attack ground vehicles at night but you won't get a lock. You simply look through the Shkval, point the cursor at the stuff you want to make go boom and fire . It won't work on moving targets unless you're very good at moving the cursor at the right speed.

 

When flying at night I prefer to stay below 300m AGL so the radar altimeter is on the Hud. The only problem I have is it becomes diffucult to see through the HUD even with the brightness turned right down. It's a good way to learn to fly without using ecxternal views.