investigating TGP A-A Mode point track range based on altitude, not contrast/visibility/resolution

[DSplayer]

Currently aircraft equipped with TPODs can only point track other fighter sized aircraft at a range of 20nms. This is even though in IR modes (WHOT and BHOT) with the new FLIR system you can distinctly see a contrast between the aircraft and the sky behind them at a range of 40nms (around the range of where planes render visually) and a TPOD should be able to lock this pretty discernable target out of the sky. Can we expect an increase in the range where you an point track other fighter sized aircraft?

 

LITENING pod on the F-18 seeing a target (J-11A) at 42nms. This target cannot be locked up even though there is a clear contrast:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by DSplayer

[DSplayer]

I’m going to bump this as improvements are still happening for the FLIR systems in DCS and I hope we could see the FLIR point track range get extended.

[Default774]

The A-A TGP will not point track targets further than an arbitrary range no matter how good your contrast is at the moment. This arbitrary range value where your TGP suddenly is able to lock point track the air target is based on your altitude, for some reason.

The lower you are, the less range your TGP point track has on air targets, the higher you are, the more range your TGP point track has. This makes very little sense to me. The ranges you are able to point track at per altitude in feet are as follows, roughly:

50K - ~36nm
40K - ~30nm
30k - ~25nm
20k - ~20nm
10k - ~15nm

This seems like a completely arbitrary 5nm increase in point track range per 10,000ft of altitude. Again, contrast, target visibility and TGP resolution do not come into the equation at all, just altitude. Even different aircraft do not make a difference, a tu-160 has exactly the same point track range as an F-16.

Furthermore, the litening seems to have no issue at all point tracking anything within the 40nm render range of the targeting pod, as long as you're in A-G mode and trying to point track the ground.

This definitely doesn't seem correct, I'm not sure how altitude would come into the equation at all when determining point track range.

Tracks attached below, all tests performed with absolutely no background clutter behind the target and good contrast.
 

airtoairtgp_cap_10k.trk airtoairtgp_cap_20k.trk airtoairtgp_cap_30k.trk airtoairtgp_cap_40k.trk airtoairtgp_cap_50k.trk

Edited October 19, 2022 by Minimalist

[BIGNEWY]

I will ask the team but you are also dealing with cloud layers in your attempts, adjusting the contrast slightly may help.

Do you notice any change when using FLIR? 

 

[Default774]

2 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

I will ask the team but you are also dealing with cloud layers in your attempts, adjusting the contrast slightly may help.

Do you notice any change when using FLIR? 

 

Clouds dont affect the targeting pod at all. It will point track through clouds just fine, see clouds.trk 

WHOT/BHOT/TV selection does not affect point track range, see noclouds_30k_swap.trk. this mission also now has no clouds set.

clouds.trk noclouds_30k_swap.trk

[BIGNEWY]

I have moved this out of the viper sub forum, this is potentially a DCS core issue related to the pod and not the aircraft. I will take a closer look in the morning, thanks for the new tracks. 

[Default774]

1 hour ago, BIGNEWY said:

I have moved this out of the viper sub forum, this is potentially a DCS core issue related to the pod and not the aircraft. I will take a closer look in the morning, thanks for the new tracks. 

After testing on the Hornet with both the litening and ATFLIR, both TGPs give exactly the same results as the litening on the F-16. Definitely seems like a core issue related to all targeting pods.

Hornet_LITENING_TGP.trk Hornet_ATFLIR_TGP.trk

[DSplayer]

Pretty interesting considering you definitely can have good contrast while not being able to point track something even though you're pretty close.
 

 

[BIGNEWY]

merged posts

[Rosly]

Maybe this could be improved now, to reflect the mechanics of reality instead of artificial limits

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Rosly