A/A gun aiming

[jaguara5]

Does anybody know how this piper on the gunsight is working for A/A gun aiming? Does it provide a radar assisted shooting solution?  

Edited October 22, 2022 by jaguara5

[Stackup]

Yes, afaik it should provide you with a lead solution using the radar.

[Lieuie]

Well the F-5 does so it would be pretty weird if the F-4 didn't.

[Dragon1-1]

Funnily enough, early F-4s didn't, causing much frustration for pilots trying to use the gunpods with them. The designers didn't expect air to air gunnery to be a thing with the Phantom, so they didn't add it. The F-4E should have a proper radar gunsight, because it has an internal gun.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Dragon1-1

[Czechnology]

16 hours ago, jaguara5 said:

Does anybody know who this piper on the gunsight is working for A/A gun aiming? Does it provide a radar assisted shooting solution?  

F-4Es were equipped with the AN/ASG-26 sight, which while I don't have the documentation immediately on hand, I know gives a calculated lead to the target. Will dig through my books and the documents I have for exact details sometime soon.

[jaguara5]

Found this. A lot of math. 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by jaguara5

[303_Kermit]

On 10/22/2022 at 12:01 PM, Dragon1-1 said:

Funnily enough, early F-4s didn't, causing much frustration for pilots trying to use the gunpods with them. The designers didn't expect air to air gunnery to be a thing with the Phantom, so they didn't add it. The F-4E should have a proper radar gunsight, because it has an internal gun.

 

Not nearly as frustrating as early F-105 armed with early M-61 Vulcan. Usually jamming after about 200 rounds. Pilots used to use a pitot tube to aim.

[lunaticfringe]

The F-4Es sight provides radar based lead compensation when a lock is had, or reverts to a default 1000' range if not. 

Should the pilot wish to have the 1000' lead presented instead of that from the radar, push the Cage button on the right engine throttle.  If the pilot presses the Cage button without a lock, the pipper will stabilize at the Radar Boresight Line (RBL) position.

[streakeagle]

The F-4E's gunsight looks and works a lot like the F-5E's gunsight. I think the F-4D was the first variant to have a lead computing gunsight to support the centerline gunpod.

[Heinlein]

hace 13 minutos, lunaticfringe dijo:

The F-4Es sight provides radar based lead compensation when a lock is had, or reverts to a default 1000' range if not. 

Should the pilot wish to have the 1000' lead presented instead of that from the radar, push the Cage button on the right engine throttle.  If the pilot presses the Cage button without a lock, the pipper will stabilize at the Radar Boresight Line (RBL) position.

so I take it, it's pretty much like the AN/ASG-31 on the F-5?

[Spurts]

1 hour ago, 303_Kermit said:

Not nearly as frustrating as early F-105 armed with early M-61 Vulcan. Usually jamming after about 200 rounds. Pilots used to use a pitot tube to aim.

and they got the most gun kills of the war for US types.

[303_Kermit]

I wanted to write "No wonder they flew over 20 000 combat sorties", but then I checked that F-100 did 360 000 combat sorties. So... Was it because of high alt profile of 105's flights? Or because F-105's made in Vietnam mostly A2G sorties without AiM-9 under wings?

 “I manoeuvred to superimpose my pitot boom over the MiG, squeezed the trigger and saw the 20 mm rounds sparkling along the left fuselage and wing root of the MiG. His left wing folded over the tail and in an abrupt left turn he went into a cloud at about 2500 ft"

Edited October 25, 2022 by 303_Kermit

[Dragon1-1]

That was because the F-100 flew almost exclusively over South Vietnam, where there weren't many MiGs to be found. They also did close support most of the time, while the F-105 was (briefly) used as a fighter. They did take out some MiG-17s early on (not officially credited), but aside from that, it doesn't seem like they had any opportunity to engage in air combat at all. Probably a good thing, the F-100 would likely have gotten its clock cleaned by the more advanced MiGs.