solved 2.8 Caucasus tooltip issue

[Tj1376]

After we upgraded our servers to 2.8, both of our Caucasus miz's now force tooltips on for the client. We have no idea why.

tips=false is set in the Options file packed inside the miz, and this behavior was not present on 2.7, nor is it present on our Syria server (also running 2.8, and its options are the exact same as the Caucasus miz.) 

Ive even tried removing tips altogether to see if that would allow the client to decide, but it remains forced on despite clients setting tooltips to unchecked.

Any help would be appreciated. 

TJ

ToolTips.trk

Edited October 31, 2022 by Tj1376

[HoBGoBLiNzx3]

I thought I was crazy. I left a server 3 times to double check my settings. Asked if it was forced on by the server but no one knew. Good call! 

[Flappie]

Is this issue still here in 2.8.0.32235?

[Tj1376]

On 11/11/2022 at 4:00 PM, Flappie said:

Is this issue still here in 2.8.0.32235?

Yes @Flappie- still present post the hotfix. 

TJ

[Flappie]

Sorry but, when you say "tooltips", you mean "labels", right?

 

[Tj1376]

On 11/13/2022 at 6:18 AM, Flappie said:

Sorry but, when you say "tooltips", you mean "labels", right?

 

No sir, we mean tooltips. Tips=True/False should control the Tooltip (per our own documentation - this appears to have changed in 2.8.)

We also just rotated one server from Cauc to PG and the behavior is the same on PG  Tips=False is in the MIZ, however tooltips are still displayed.

TJ

Edited November 14, 2022 by Tj1376

[Tj1376]

@Flappie

I just did a random search in the MIZ archive for 'tips' and I found a reference in the mission file that is set to true.

Can you please ask the Dev team if the Options file (packed in the miz archive) for tips=false/true is no longer obeyed and only the reference in the mission file should be obeyed?

I confirmed that manually setting this newly found "TIPS" value in the MISSION file to false does indeed remove tooltips, however, there is no where in the DCS Mission Editor GUI to set this value (that I know of!), so this is a manual task to unpack the .miz archive, overwrite the MISSION tips value to false, then repack the archive.

Is there any way to get the devs to file this as a bug where the Options file packed inside the MIZ is not obeyed? 

And, is there any workaround where I can set something in the DCS Mission Editor to force tooltips off?

Just to make sure we are clear:

Inside each .MIZ (like the above track) is an OPTIONS file. This OPTIONS file contains the settings that the mission creator wants to enforce on their MIZ. The complaint today is that the OPTIONS file is being ignored and instead there are a handful of options in the actual MISSION file. See attached screenshot of the handful of values that are in the MISSION file (these should all be obeyed from the OPTIONS file packed in the .MIZ.)

Hit me up if you want to discuss, would be happy to jump on a call and show this.

TJ

Edited November 14, 2022 by Tj1376

[Flappie]

I've just done a simple test in current stable (2.7) and current OB (2.8) in order to reproduce what you saw. I saved a blank Caucasus mission with each DCS version, then I compared files: I cannot find the "tips" line in the "mission" file. The "forcedOptions" section is empty, contrary to what your screenshot shows:

    ["forcedOptions"] = 
    {
    }, -- end of ["forcedOptions"]
    ["start_time"] = 28800,

How do you end up having the "tips" line in your MIZ file?

And what if you remove this "tips" line from the "mission" file? Does the "tips" line from the "options" file start to work?

blank_2.7_Stable.miz blank_2.8_OB.miz

[Tj1376]

4 hours ago, Flappie said:

I've just done a simple test in current stable (2.7) and current OB (2.8) in order to reproduce what you saw. I saved a blank Caucasus mission with each DCS version, then I compared files: I cannot find the "tips" line in the "mission" file. The "forcedOptions" section is empty, contrary to what your screenshot shows:

    ["forcedOptions"] = 
    {
    }, -- end of ["forcedOptions"]
    ["start_time"] = 28800,

How do you end up having the "tips" line in your MIZ file?

And what if you remove this "tips" line from the "mission" file? Does the "tips" line from the "options" file start to work?

blank_2.7_Stable.miz 7.31 kB · 0 downloads blank_2.8_OB.miz 7.44 kB · 0 downloads

This is one of the oldest servers in the DCS community, its MIZ's have been around forever. Our Syria miz is nearly 8k units strong, our original Cauc miz is just shy of 6k units...so you can understand that the MIZs never get rebuilt (tweaked all the time, but started from scratch, yeah, nearly never.) They have always worked from upgrade to upgrade (even from going from v1.x to 2.x!), and we've prided ourselves on working with ED to resolve issues as upgrades roll out. 

But you sir are spot on - I went into the mission file and simply deleted all the text in the "forcedOptions" section and YES SIR, the Options file is now obeyed!!! So I imagine this "forcedOptions" section in the MISSION file is simply old (probably pre Options file) and something in 2.8 is causing the code to obey the MISSION file if the values are present. This behavior did not exist in 2.7 (go load my original track in 2.7 and you'll see no tooltips, but load it in 2.8 and suddenly tooltips are on!)

Thanks - this gives us an easy workaround!

TJ

[Tj1376]

I dont want to lead anyone astray, and since the above back and forth with @Flappie DID lead us astray, I wanted to come back here and document the issue more clearly, now that we know what happened.

Problem Statement: Users were seeing tooltips on our servers, despite the Options file in the MIZ saying tips=false

In the above Track (in the very first post), there was a conflict between the two options available in the Mission Editor. If you open the track, you will see the OPTIONS file in the track lists tips=false. However, in the MISSION file under the 'forcedOptions' section, tips=true. This is the 'conflict' and post 2.8, the MISSION file forcedOptions section is now taking precedence (as it rightfully should). If you open the same track with 2.7, you'll see that the forcedOptions section for tips is not obeyed, and instead the Options file value is obeyed. 

So lets better understand the OPTIONS file vs the 'forcedOptions' section in the MISSION file. First, the 'forcedOptions' section in the MISSION file is where a mission designer goes into the mission editor and selects the "ENFORCE" options and then selects a value. This will enter into the MISSION file a forcedOptions value for what you select. Notice that today in 2.8, tooltips is no longer a selectable option.

To resolve the issue, we simply updated the 'forcedOptions' section to tips=false and this has resolved our issue.

I then tried to play around with the OPTIONS file, but I still havent figured out what the OPTIONS file actually does. In 2.8 there is no way to select a value in the ME without selecting enforce first, which seems to render the Options file obsolete. I believe that the correct way to now enforce Options in your MIZ is to set 'forcedOptions' values in the MISSION file (either via the GUI that ED makes available in the Mission Editor, or by editing the MISSION file with your preferred text editor of choice.)

Hope this helps anyone else who stumbles across issues with their MIZ's in the future.

TJ

Edited November 19, 2022 by Tj1376

[_UnknownCheater_]

So in 2.8,the tooltips option based on server settings?This is why sometimes in server won't show the tooltips sometimes yes.

[Tj1376]

On 12/20/2022 at 12:30 AM, zhouyut001 said:

So in 2.8,the tooltips option based on server settings?This is why sometimes in server won't show the tooltips sometimes yes.

Its always been based on server settings.

Basically a server has three options:
1) Enforce a value as true

2) Enforce a value as false

3) Let the client decide

The problem with 2.8 is that the "Tips" section (what we call Tooltips, ED calls "Tips") in the Mission Editor has the Tips values removed from the GUI but enforced in the MIZ. This means mission editors must go into the "MISSION" file packed inside the .miz archive and manually edit the value with their favorite text editor of choice.

TJ

[_UnknownCheater_]

On 1/9/2023 at 7:32 AM, Tj1376 said:

Its always been based on server settings.

Basically a server has three options:
1) Enforce a value as true

2) Enforce a value as false

3) Let the client decide

The problem with 2.8 is that the "Tips" section (what we call Tooltips, ED calls "Tips") in the Mission Editor has the Tips values removed from the GUI but enforced in the MIZ. This means mission editors must go into the "MISSION" file packed inside the .miz archive and manually edit the value with their favorite text editor of choice.

TJ

I did't see the tooltips option in ME.Maybe I didn't notice it before

[Tj1376]

I did't see the tooltips option in ME.Maybe I didn't notice it before

That's exactly the point of this entire post.

ED removed the tips option from the ME GUI but didn't build code to remove it from the mission file packed inside the miz. Thus old missions that were built pre 2.8 are now doing weird things with tooltips that creators don't expect and they have no easy way to fix it without understanding that a miz is really just a zip file and you can edit all the files inside it with a notepad editor of your choice (assuming you know what yo edit. Its a ton of trial and error.)

It would be so much easier if a Tips option existed in the ME GUI so designers could control this. Or if the intent was to make this client controlled only, build code that removes the values from the options and mission file when the miz is opened from the ME GUI.

It's poor backwards compatible programming.

Hope this helps you understand the issue more clearly.

TJ

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

[_UnknownCheater_]

On 1/11/2023 at 9:02 PM, Tj1376 said:

That's exactly the point of this entire post.

ED removed the tips option from the ME GUI but didn't build code to remove it from the mission file packed inside the miz. Thus old missions that were built pre 2.8 are now doing weird things with tooltips that creators don't expect and they have no easy way to fix it without understanding that a miz is really just a zip file and you can edit all the files inside it with a notepad editor of your choice (assuming you know what yo edit. Its a ton of trial and error.)

It would be so much easier if a Tips option existed in the ME GUI so designers could control this. Or if the intent was to make this client controlled only, build code that removes the values from the options and mission file when the miz is opened from the ME GUI.

It's poor backwards compatible programming.

Hope this helps you understand the issue more clearly.

TJ

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk
 

I know how to use ME and modify miz files.I mean I never notice the tooltips is a custom option.