Need help with a mission

[dlder]

Ok, so this might be a weird call for help: I've flown the 29A and 29S quite a while now and am currently on this campaign:

"Winter Sun"
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/472188/

(I have Google-converted the text to English)

Anyway, even though I had quite a few - usually succesful^^ - fights against Amraams, I just cannot figure out how to do mission 6. I've tried over 30 times now, with various AI skill level settings, going in high or low, with or without ECM, doing various cranking manouvers, but the 4x F-16s just always get me and my Wingman! I can usually down 1-2, while my Wingman don't manage even 1 kill.

Could someone better skilled then my please fly this mission and put a video up on youtube or something?

I just wanna know how it could be done.
Yes, I know, 4v4 shouldn't be impossible; with R-77 actually quite doable, but I'm just unable to beat this particular mission

I have included the translated campaign and just the mission itself.

Thanks

Winter Sun (English-Google).7z WS_fc3_29c_06_ru.7z

[TheFreshPrince]

Hi, I've tried this mission a few times now. There are many ways to do this. Here's what I've found:

-Your wingmen are taxiing too slow so you'll need to start on your own until they are ready

-Ideally engage bandits between Gudauta and Sochi, by then your wingmen should be at least taking off

-Start as high and fast as possible to increase missile range (if possible you can shoot an R27ET. It has more range than R77, but bandit needs to be in afterburner)

-Don't worry about the first AIM120, it can't kill you if you defend properly, (ECM always on, chaff while turning and flares against 9X when you're close)

-Engange flight lead with R77 or R27ET and ideally another bandit as well to put them defensive. You can use TWS mode to track them before engaging to increase your situational awareness. Fly towards them in a slight notch and only turn into them when in firing range. Use nnc (High pulse repetition) mode for hot bandits and change your radar settings accordingly to where the bandits are.

-Defend AIM120 aggressively, use the mountains to the left to do this. General tutorial is here:

-Watch your RWR: If missile doesn't come closer anymore, it is defeated and you can slowly recommit (even if it's still tracking you)

-Repeat until merged (some of the F16 will surpass you to get to your buddies, watch for the contrails as they are flying high)

-You should kill at least 2 F16 before the merge

Good luck!

 

PS: Watch your flight on Tacview to see what's going on and then adapt.

Edited November 3, 2022 by TheFreshPrince

[dlder]

Thanks!

So you'd not wait for your wingman to taxii and start with you, but to attack 4 F-16 alone? Jesus, that sound scary AF.

Nice tip with the RWR; is it really that precise to tell if the missile isn't closing in anylonger? I've gotta test this in a trainings mission, because in Tacview I can see that I always play it too safe and loose valuable time in where my Wingman get slaughtered.

And that's my biggest problem, I think: they usually kill none. They are only good for distracting the enemy.

Great video btw; some new information even!

 

[draconus]

1 hour ago, dlder said:

Nice tip with the RWR; is it really that precise to tell if the missile isn't closing in anylonger?

Well, not precise, but after some practice it's pretty usable against known threats.

[dlder]

update: did it! Finally!

I did wait for my Wingman, but after start I immediately flew away of the F16 to gain height and speed, while my Wingman were taking off. Then I turned 90° into the mountains, still gaining height and trying to get the enemy on my radar, cranking at about 50°. I also sent my Wingman to engage the enemy -> this meant I've split my forces, attacking the F16 from 2 different directions AND from different heights (me being at about 11k and my Wingman presumably at around 5k.

This worked pretty good! Only the 2nd 2-ship grp (the F16 were split too) even shot at me. Nevertheless, I was the only one surviving...

And that RWR range trick worked pretty well! I always thought a missile would be too fast for that, but it is usefull if it's not shot at close range, where the speed difference isn't that high anymore (diving down and away you get 1.2-1.4 easy). 

 

[TheFreshPrince]

Good job! I meant to wait a bit for your wingmen, but to take off before them and engage first. Exactly as you did. Otherwise the F16 come too close and you can't get the altitude and speed advantage anymore. I guess the mission setup is not ideal.

If you're not within the MAR (minimum abort range), you can theoretically defend any missile. The rocket motor will only last a few seconds and after that it will lose it's energy. By diving down, cranking, turning cold or notching it, you can defeat it. The MIG29 luckily has enormous thrust to outrun the missile. In PVE you will get the launch warning, because the AI single target locks you. But if you're in PVP, you will likely not get the launch warning, because the enemy will fire in TWS mode. The missile warning will then appear when the AIM120 goes pitbull (turns on it's own radar) at close range, which is too late. Therefore it's better to develop a "feeling" (or to know) at which ranges the AIM120 can be fired, is dangerous and then to pre-emptively defend the missile even without a RWR warning. I think missions and PVE campaigns like this are really good to practice those things.

[dlder]

Absolutely!

Though I was under the impression that the AI does use TWS? Like when fighting against F-14, it'll fire the missile way back and you'll only get a missile warning when it's too late (if you're not defending beforehand, that is).

But yeah, getting a feeling for what each missile is capable of (MAR and such), that's really just practice. The Amraam just looses so little energy at high altitudes; that's why I like to "sneak in" from a low, cranked position: it negates the range advantage of the enemy (mostly). This works very well against 1 or 2 targets. But not 4 it seems; you'll just get overrun, as the enemy does have an energy advantage over you.

Though having Wingman, which can divert some enemies does help a lot; can't be grouped together though, or you'll just all get showered with missiles