TEMPEST.114 Posted November 16, 2022 Posted November 16, 2022 So when I first started to learn the mission editor / scripting back in September an amazing member of this community fixed a huge problem for me, by explaining a bug that I would NEVER have been able to work out for myself: Thanks again @toutenglisse!!! So. because the scripting engine is lacking and requires you to have groups of only 1 (for F10 Radio Addition reasons), that will mean, that if I have 8 CLIENTS, then for an attacking red AI unit, instead of one Perform Command 'Attack Group <groupname>' in its advanced waypoint actions, I now am forced to have EIGHT (or n number of CLIENTS) commands for 'Attack Unit' and because this is ordered in preference, even if blue group 1 is closest to the red AI, but it's 6th on the list, the red AI will ignore it and go for the unit that is first on it's list right? So... with all that in mind... does *anyone* know of any more of these order / sequence gotcha's out there that I/we should be made aware of? Or can we make a definitive list and pin it here and in the bugs section so hopefully this gets addressed? Or push for someone at ED to add Radio Command For Unit and solve this particular frustration?
Rudel_chw Posted November 16, 2022 Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Elphaba said: Or can we make a definitive list and pin it here and in the bugs section Why cross-post it? just post it once, on the Bugs section. But it would be more useful to just report one bug per thread, unless they are related. Edited November 16, 2022 by Rudel_chw For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600 - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia RTX2080 - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB
TEMPEST.114 Posted November 16, 2022 Author Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said: Why cross-post it? just post it once, on the Bugs section. But it would be more useful to just report one bug per thread, unless they are related. Sigh... a) NOT posting here as a reference to a bug. b) I was REFERENCING IT so that people who hadn't seen it or wanted to read up on the background of the problem without me repeating myself could read it if they wanted to c) It has been bugged for years and nothing has been done. d) And THIS POST is about asking IF THERE ARE ANY OTHERS KNOWN THAT ARE LIKE IT. Get the reason for this new post now? Edited November 16, 2022 by Elphaba
Grimes Posted November 16, 2022 Posted November 16, 2022 1 hour ago, Elphaba said: instead of one Perform Command 'Attack Group <groupname>' in its advanced waypoint actions, I now am forced to have EIGHT (or n number of CLIENTS) commands for 'Attack Unit' and because this is ordered in preference, even if blue group 1 is closest to the red AI, but it's 6th on the list, the red AI will ignore it and go for the unit that is first on it's list right? So... with all that in mind... does *anyone* know of any more of these order / sequence gotcha's out there that I/we should be made aware of? Or can we make a definitive list and pin it here and in the bugs section so hopefully this gets addressed? For starters its just how tasks work. https://wiki.hoggitworld.com/view/DCS_editor_AITasking#Perform_Task_vs_Enroute_Task with anything from under the "Perform Task" category forces the AI to do only that task until it is complete. Enroute tasks allow AI to go do other tasks because their behavior is predicated on detecting the targets, but there still is a priority. That said 8 attack unit tasks with waypoint actions is the worst way to accomplish what it looks like what you are trying to do. 1. Triggered actions tab. These are actions that you can activate at any time via the trigger AI Task Push or AI Task Set. They can be called in any order at any time. null 2. Search then engage X. You could give the AI a task to search then engage in zone, in which case they will just attack players as they enter the area with priority on whichever they detect first. You can also tell em to engage unit, but as stated earlier with 8 search then engage tasks for each unit the AI can switch targets if a target higher in the list becomes detected. 3. Scripting. Its similar to triggered actions except you don't have to setup X number of tasks. You can just have a single task table and change the variables as needed. https://wiki.hoggitworld.com/view/DCS_task_attackUnit 1 The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world. Current Projects: Grayflag Server, Scripting Wiki Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread) SLMOD, Wiki wishlist, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum
TEMPEST.114 Posted November 17, 2022 Author Posted November 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Grimes said: For starters its just how tasks work. https://wiki.hoggitworld.com/view/DCS_editor_AITasking#Perform_Task_vs_Enroute_Task with anything from under the "Perform Task" category forces the AI to do only that task until it is complete. Enroute tasks allow AI to go do other tasks because their behavior is predicated on detecting the targets, but there still is a priority. That said 8 attack unit tasks with waypoint actions is the worst way to accomplish what it looks like what you are trying to do. 1. Triggered actions tab. These are actions that you can activate at any time via the trigger AI Task Push or AI Task Set. They can be called in any order at any time. null 2. Search then engage X. You could give the AI a task to search then engage in zone, in which case they will just attack players as they enter the area with priority on whichever they detect first. You can also tell em to engage unit, but as stated earlier with 8 search then engage tasks for each unit the AI can switch targets if a target higher in the list becomes detected. 3. Scripting. Its similar to triggered actions except you don't have to setup X number of tasks. You can just have a single task table and change the variables as needed. https://wiki.hoggitworld.com/view/DCS_task_attackUnit As always, thanks @Grimes. I was actually talking about using the 'Triggered Actions' in my question - I thought I was clearer about that. I think that option 2 is going to be my best choice as my scripting level isn't up to snuff to do option 3. I'm still unable to spawn a unit that isn't already placed in the mission editor... I'm working on that right now, but it's hard. With option 2 though, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I tried to use that on a mission I made (I think my 3rd ever) back in August/September. I had a helo attack group (two hinds) and they had a waypoint to fly to and then I did the 'search then engage' and I increased the radius of the search range and dragged the little triangle to set where I wanted the centre of their search area to be. When it came to playing the mission, they flew to waypoint 1, didn't go to the search area, and just buggered off back to their base and were no threat to my players. I believe I posted here wondering what I was doing wrong and it may have even been you, but someone said you STILL have to place multiple waypoints all over the 'search area' for them to fly to, but because there IS a search area, they SHOULD engage any enemy targets they find whilst they are flying the waypoints inside that search area. Was that correct information or do I still have it wrong?
Grimes Posted November 17, 2022 Posted November 17, 2022 Search then engage is a task that they are allowed to do. It isn't actively forcing them to go there and do a search pattern or anything like that. The AI don't need to be flying in the target area to detect targets, but it certainly helps. Mostly its an aircraft and the sensors they have available issue, with the rest being the targets. You could have an F-15 flying an orbit with that task active, any enemy fighter that enters the zone will probably get engaged because: The F-15 has a good radar and as long as the zone isn't 200km away it could detect the enemy aircraft The enemy aircraft could have a radar emitting, which will show up on the F-15s RWR, thus the F-15 can know something is out there If a friendly AWACS, EWR, or other blue aircraft with datalink are in the mission and detect the enemy aircraft that info is transmitted to the F-15 A HIND is a bit different because it lacks radar and the optics don't have FLIR. So it needs to visually see the target, thus flying in the search area is advised. It seeing tracers or dust from enemy forces moving will help it engage. 1 The right man in the wrong place makes all the difference in the world. Current Projects: Grayflag Server, Scripting Wiki Useful Links: Mission Scripting Tools MIST-(GitHub) MIST-(Thread) SLMOD, Wiki wishlist, Mission Editing Wiki!, Mission Building Forum
TEMPEST.114 Posted November 17, 2022 Author Posted November 17, 2022 11 minutes ago, Grimes said: Search then engage is a task that they are allowed to do. It isn't actively forcing them to go there and do a search pattern or anything like that. The AI don't need to be flying in the target area to detect targets, but it certainly helps. Mostly its an aircraft and the sensors they have available issue, with the rest being the targets. You could have an F-15 flying an orbit with that task active, any enemy fighter that enters the zone will probably get engaged because: The F-15 has a good radar and as long as the zone isn't 200km away it could detect the enemy aircraft The enemy aircraft could have a radar emitting, which will show up on the F-15s RWR, thus the F-15 can know something is out there If a friendly AWACS, EWR, or other blue aircraft with datalink are in the mission and detect the enemy aircraft that info is transmitted to the F-15 A HIND is a bit different because it lacks radar and the optics don't have FLIR. So it needs to visually see the target, thus flying in the search area is advised. It seeing tracers or dust from enemy forces moving will help it engage. Brilliant explanation! Thanks @Grimes
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