Please change visibility in forest

[v2tec]

I fly NOE and see an KI enemy plane on the map, 20 or more miles away. I decent and hide in the forest, surrounded by trees and almost at the ground. The enemy plane approaches and I am pretty sure, in real live he would never see me - but he descent and fires on my - kill.

When a helicopter is hidding in the forest or surrounded by trees (similar) - it should not be possible for high flying planes, to detect them.

[Mars Exulte]

On 12/10/2022 at 6:28 PM, v2tec said:

I fly NOE and see an KI enemy plane on the map, 20 or more miles away. I decent and hide in the forest

 Dunno if online or not, but any plane with radar would have seen you and noted your position. Diving at this point isn't going to help much 99% of the time, since they already know your approximate location. NoE flight is conducted at ALL times, not just ''when enemies are spotted'', because then it's too late.

On 12/10/2022 at 6:28 PM, v2tec said:

surrounded by trees and almost at the ground. The enemy plane approaches and I am pretty sure, in real live he would never see me

 Maybe, maybe not. There are no certainties.

On 12/10/2022 at 6:28 PM, v2tec said:

When a helicopter is hidding in the forest or surrounded by trees (similar) - it should not be possible for high flying planes, to detect them.

 Generally speaking it is very difficult/unlikely, not ''impossible'', especially if you were detected early as you describe. Flying extremely low is also likely to kick up a lot of dust, depending on circumstances and make you more visible from a distance.

 Lastly, if you're playing online, there's no true ''surprise''. Everyone knows approximately what each side has, what routes they tend to travel, etc, and so finding you ''hiding'' in a commonly traveled area when he's specifically looking for people like you is not very difficult.

[M1Combat]

The moment you see a fast mover that can kill you...  you need air support or SAM support.  Preferably both.

 

Most heli's don't do well when any fighters or CAS aircraft are around.  The heli's rotor creates a HUGE radar signal...  and their exhaust points UP.

Gain air superiority first or operate as if you don't have it if you aren't sure.  In MP make sure you're on the GCI channel and listen at the least.

[Raptor9]

8 hours ago, M1Combat said:

Most heli's don't do well when any fighters or CAS aircraft are around.  The heli's rotor creates a HUGE radar signal...  and their exhaust points UP.

There are some myths here. Yes, helicopters can present a slow-moving target, as most would assume = easy target. But that is often not the case. Often times, engaging a helicopter is akin to attacking a ground target. It can be very easy to collide with the ground/obstacles or overshoot the target, and complicating the matter is that engaging a helicopter can effectively be like trying to shoot a Formula 1 race car as it twists and turns on a raceway at high speed. As long as you aren't caught out in the open, and you know there is a fighter coming for you, you actually have a reasonable chance of survival. I've not only successfully avoided hostile fighters in the trees and buildings, I've even shot them down on occasion.

All you need to do is hide behind a hill, in a forest clearing, or in a cluster of buildings. Even when you can only hide on one side of an obstacle, say a building or on one end of a clearing, as the fighter breaks off from their attack to circle around from the other direction and try again, you can just as easily hover around to the other side by the time they re-orient for another pass. I've had AI aircraft try unsuccessfully for 15-20 minutes to get a shot at me, until they had to break off due to low fuel. Or I've had human players get impatient and dive down low and slow to try to get some additional time at getting a shot off on me, and then they can get smacked by my own weapons (but it is best to wait them out, since they will typically be further up against a fuel curve than you are). But again, the most important thing is knowing when you are under attack in the first place. The rest is just being more patient and disciplined than the guy trying to shoot you down.

In the Ka-50 alone, examples of aircraft that I've shot down range from MiG-29's to A-10's, because whether it is the AI or a human player, the most common mistake they make is coming in low and slow to try to get a shot off. Gives me plenty of time to get behind an obstacle or shoot them with my own weapons, which can be just as accurate as theirs.

[BalticDude]

5 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

There are some myths here. Yes, helicopters can present a slow-moving target, as most would assume = easy target. But that is often not the case. Often times, engaging a helicopter is akin to attacking a ground target. It can be very easy to collide with the ground/obstacles or overshoot the target, and complicating the matter is that engaging a helicopter can effectively be like trying to shoot a Formula 1 race car as it twists and turns on a raceway at high speed. As long as you aren't caught out in the open, and you know there is a fighter coming for you, you actually have a reasonable chance of survival. I've not only successfully avoided hostile fighters in the trees and buildings, I've even shot them down on occasion.

All you need to do is hide behind a hill, in a forest clearing, or in a cluster of buildings. Even when you can only hide on one side of an obstacle, say a building or on one end of a clearing, as the fighter breaks off from their attack to circle around from the other direction and try again, you can just as easily hover around to the other side by the time they re-orient for another pass. I've had AI aircraft try unsuccessfully for 15-20 minutes to get a shot at me, until they had to break off due to low fuel. Or I've had human players get impatient and dive down low and slow to try to get some additional time at getting a shot off on me, and then they can get smacked by my own weapons (but it is best to wait them out, since they will typically be further up against a fuel curve than you are). But again, the most important thing is knowing when you are under attack in the first place. The rest is just being more patient and disciplined than the guy trying to shoot you down.

As for the "HUGE radar signal from helicopters", that is also a myth. This can be researched online in many scientific papers. And very few helicopter exhausts actually point up.

In the Ka-50 alone, examples of aircraft that I've shot down range from MiG-29's to A-10's, because whether it is the AI or a human player, the most common mistake they make is coming in low and slow to try to get a shot off. Gives me plenty of time to get behind an obstacle or shoot them with my own weapons, which can be just as accurate as theirs.

With Iglas they will be even more deadly!

[M1Combat]

6 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

There are some myths here. Yes, helicopters can present a slow-moving target, as most would assume = easy target. But that is often not the case. Often times, engaging a helicopter is akin to attacking a ground target. It can be very easy to collide with the ground/obstacles or overshoot the target, and complicating the matter is that engaging a helicopter can effectively be like trying to shoot a Formula 1 race car as it twists and turns on a raceway at high speed. As long as you aren't caught out in the open, and you know there is a fighter coming for you, you actually have a reasonable chance of survival. I've not only successfully avoided hostile fighters in the trees and buildings, I've even shot them down on occasion.

All you need to do is hide behind a hill, in a forest clearing, or in a cluster of buildings. Even when you can only hide on one side of an obstacle, say a building or on one end of a clearing, as the fighter breaks off from their attack to circle around from the other direction and try again, you can just as easily hover around to the other side by the time they re-orient for another pass. I've had AI aircraft try unsuccessfully for 15-20 minutes to get a shot at me, until they had to break off due to low fuel. Or I've had human players get impatient and dive down low and slow to try to get some additional time at getting a shot off on me, and then they can get smacked by my own weapons (but it is best to wait them out, since they will typically be further up against a fuel curve than you are). But again, the most important thing is knowing when you are under attack in the first place. The rest is just being more patient and disciplined than the guy trying to shoot you down.

In the Ka-50 alone, examples of aircraft that I've shot down range from MiG-29's to A-10's, because whether it is the AI or a human player, the most common mistake they make is coming in low and slow to try to get a shot off. Gives me plenty of time to get behind an obstacle or shoot them with my own weapons, which can be just as accurate as theirs.

I didn't explain well but what I mean is that they don't do their own thing well when fast movers are around.  By that I mean that if there's an enemy fighter around you simply have to take note and significantly adjust your focus to defend yourself or pay attention until they've moved on, and if the enemy fighter has a half decent pilot...  You're almost certainly done if they so choose.  I have many, many hours in the shark.  I've shot down a number of enemy aircraft, including two human piloted Huey's with AI door gunners at once at close range using the cannon and HMS :). 

Anyway...  I agree with all you said.  I'm not trying to say your only option is land and prepare your picnic until the sky is clear :).  You can make an effort to defend yourself for sure, but... you're on the wrong side of the power curve IMO :).  The fighter is designed to kill other things in the air...  and it will.  The heli is designed to hopefully defend itself... and it might :).

I'm just saying that to defend yourself against a fighter, using a heli...  You have to do a lot of things just right and they have to do a lot of things wrong :).

Aside from that...  Heli's stick out like a sore thumb on radar.  Aside from physical cover or concealment from the moment the fighter might have LoS...  you aren't going to go sneaking about if the fighter takes any interest.