S-125 unable to detect and destroy F-117A

[okopanja]

I tried to recreate the downing of the night hawk in Serbia on 27.03.1999.

As a reference I used the page from the book written by one of the members of the 3rd rd, 250 rb PVO, colonel Slaviša Golubović, named "Pad noćnog sokola", ISBN: 9788633505970.

Translation of the 2 pages:

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Page 50:  Detection, tracking and attacking of F-117A, March 27th 1999.

Target parameter at any time was not lower than 12km. At the moment of launch, target was already receding.

Page 51: Altitude maneuver of F-117A, upon visual observation of launch from ground

During two unsuccessful attempts of tracking with station for missile guidance, airplane does not change the movements of parameters, it remains at 6.000m (20.000 ft).

After the third attempt of detection and start of successful tracking on angle and distance, there are no changes i movement parameters of airplane.

Upon visual observation (by pilot) of first, and following the second missile NEVA, airplane initially throws IR decoys and immediately starts sudden climb maneuver.

It quickly enters the clouds above, while continuously climbing. The first missile tracks successfully and meets airplane at 8km altitude and distance of 14km.

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The attached miz and trk file attempt to replicate the flight profile of the F-117A.

Skill level for S-125 is set to Excellent.

Skill level for F-117A is set to Rookie.

SA-3 vs F-117A.trk SA-3 vs F-117A.miz

Edited December 11, 2022 by okopanja
provided translation of 2 pages

[Flappie]

Hi @okopanja. This was an intentional change. As you probably know already, the downing of the F-117 in Yugoslavia was made possible with very specific conditons:

Quote

The SAMs were most likely guided manually with the help of thermal images and laser rangefinders included in the Pechora-M variant of the SA-3s believed to have been used.

[...]

Zoltán and his missile crews guessed the flight paths of earlier F-117As from occasional visual and radar spotting and judging from this information and what target had just been bombed, Zoltán and his missile battery determined the probable flight path of F-117A. His missile crews and spotters were then able to locate it and fire their missiles. Zoltán also claims to have modified his radars to better detect the F-117A, but he has not disclosed what was changed.

(source)

What is not intentional however is that more modern SAMs cannot detect it anymore. It's reported. Maybe once this gets fixed, the SA-3 will be able to shoot at the F-117 under certains conditions, we'll see.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Flappie

[okopanja]

1 minute ago, Flappie said:

(source)

Do not get me wrong, this is not really even closely comparable source of information.

On one side you have a book based on signed testimonies of participants (including the author) and on other semi-patched online article. A lot of early confusion was due to the fact that no precise information was published and many years both sides avoided revealing any details. This has led to lots of online speculations each built on top of another resulting in rather vague and incorrect descriptions. The author states that the main motivation behind the book is to ensure that accurate and reliable account of events is preserved for history.

Here are few errors I identified in the first run:

- Wrong name of the unit: this was not a 3rd battalion, but 3rd divizion (not to be confused with division) of the 250th rocket brigade.

- Article contradicts itself. Neva M is specified only few paragraphs later to claim Pechora M, probably in order to support the theory that it was manual guidance assisted by thermal camera. However, the book states that tracking was radar based and only got successful from the third attempt.

- During the war SNR-125M (Neva M) was used, the same radar got upgraded to SNR-125M1T level but only after the war.

I will get back with some more details once I get this book in full.

Other things to be noted:

- current S-125 template model is highly inaccurate, missing is the operator's cabine + power supply, loaders and transport trucks.

- template in addition it includes Bofors cannons (I am puzzled by this)

- F-117A is rather poorly modeled. As one of the most iconic aircrafts of 20th century it deserves way better model.

 

[Flappie]

I stand corrected about sources. Let's wait for this other issue to get fixed and we'll see if the SA-3 is able to lock F-117 again or not.

[norman99]

21 minutes ago, okopanja said:

- current S-125 template model is highly inaccurate, missing is the operator's cabine + power supply, loaders and transport trucks.

Basically everything in this package!

https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/sa-3-goa-battalion-3ds/684172

[okopanja]

9 hours ago, norman99 said:

Basically everything in this package!

https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/sa-3-goa-battalion-3ds/684172

That is a rather nice overview.

[okopanja]

I have finally picked up the book and read it in single day. Since I am at skiing the book is not with me but this is short review of this book.

The book contains a chronology of combat action of the 3rd divizion of 250 rocket brigade PVO. Each of this events typically consist of:

1. Reconstructions of event including:
- state of unit, personel and depoyed weapon systems. (e.g. radar type, launchers, mounted missiles - when available with serial numbers and call names, shifts).
- initial combat plan of enemy units, including the type and number of enemy aircraft and their combat duty
- unit's own combat log and end of mission
2. Testemonies section including testemonies of involved personel (but also those who could witness missile launches and hits):
- combat commander on duty and his deputy (working with picture provided by P18, including the communication to command center of the 250th rocket brigade and its own acquisition and targeting radar)
- commmander of rocket battery, officer in command of SNR-125, communicating with combat commander, also decides on launch platform and missile selection.
- guidance officer, resposible to detect the target with SNR-125 and designate the target for guidance operators, also the person who physically launches the missile (PUSK).
- operator of manual guidance on F1 plane
- operator of manual guidance on F2 plane

All testemonies include actual unit member names and their signatures.

3. Combat result
4. Subsequent analyzis if applicable. E.g. book often addresses the presently published online opinions and rumors.

Covered combat action include:
1. dislocation from the initial peacetime location and subsequent attack on the initial positions at Jakovo, on the first evening of the war. I was even able to correlate this with my own personal expirience: cruise missile which overflew us did actually hit the ammounition depot of the 3rd division some 10km away. We always wondered what was the true target.

2. Downing of the F-117, which was actully first live missile firing for personel, author confirms that:
- target was not detected by higher level unit (incuding no inteligence information on probable flight paths or mission of enemy aircraft) or VOJIN (Air survialance, reporting and gudiance)
- unit was alerted by presence of enemy aircraft by ground spotters, but with no azimuth or distance
- unit detected multiple enemy aircraft on it's own, by using P-18 (meter range)
- unit was able to detect and track target with SNR-125 (centimeter range)
- no modifications were made the original S-125M system (this means no termovision)
- F-117 was downed stricly with only RADAR sensors  

3. Combat work against multiple targets, including hits without aircraft crashing on teritory where the kill could not be verified (another F-117A may have been one them).

4. Downing of F-16CG, which was ironically part of full SEAD package, which was actually hunting for 3rd divizion itself. Book describes this action in unprecented details, incuding the unsuccesful deployments of HARM missiles. Personally I found this part of the book the most interesting.

5. Combat work against target which was hit and crashed over the border at Spacvanske Sume in Croatia. The book speculates, that the downed aircraft was actually B-2, based on observed sensory information as well as the subsequently collected information after the action. The author also considers other possible options. In short the result of this action are inconclusive.

Within the book some really interesting details are published, including basics od anti-anti-radiation-missiles tactics. In total 23 such missiles were fired on this unit (the ones they confirmed by locating them at later time), with split being 22 HARMs and 1 Alarm. Only once the missile came close to cause the damage to the unit (damaged cablings and some fins on missiles, which quickly got reparied). No human causualties occured.

The book has ~400 pages, and is published at the moment in serbian and russian. The translations to english and chineese were annonced in 2020 by the author, and latest confirmation that the work continues come from author himself confirming probable title of the book in english in 2021. Sadly, as of this moment I could not verify that the english/chineese translations were published.

Personal remarks: author tried to be very objective, including the details that show both technical/human successes and failures which this unit had during the 1999 war. The book could easily be converted in rather good scenario for the action movie.

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by okopanja
Minor edit