correct as-is Route Mode does not fly to Waypoint, still switches to next WP

[J-man]

Hi, in the Nav Training Mission, when following the instructions and engaging the route mode, instead of flying to WP1 as intended, the Ka-50 flys to a different location that is not marked as as WP on the ABRIS and then switches to WP2.

When setting the take-off Airfield as a Nav Target on the PVI, the helo misses the airfield by a similarly large distance.

I assume the nav alignment is not set correctly at the hot start of the mission...

Here is the Track:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q3n1tn5p8k7nyp2/BS3_En-Route_Navigation_Training.miz_23122022_15-03.trk?dl=0

 

[mkiii]

Yes. Same problem here. During the training exercise, I got it to work perfectly, when I made sure I was trimmed up, on the correct heading (aligned with the runway), within a few degrees of the WP1 heading, and at the correct altitude and speed way before approaching WP 1. One proviso - I set my sped a bit slower than recommended, at just 160kmh - which seemed to help.

I did not touch route mode until I had set DH/DT to auto, and DH sub mode on the AP panel. I also did not touch the INS Gyro switch - which starts off in the mid position. 

I suspect that lowering my speed and maintaining a roughly correct heading initially is what made it work for me, if you are off track, you end up with a large turn radius that causes you to miss all the waypoints.

[Schlomo1933]

Dump Question: did you set the PVI 800 to Waypoint 1 ? Or did u just activate the route mode.

And did you switch before u take off the MH-Gyro-Man Switch to MH and then back to Gyro?  

because have absolute no problem with waypoints and with or without route mode

Edited December 26, 2022 by Schlomo1933

[RangerGav]

I have had similar issues with it. The route mode doesn't seem to head to the waypoints even after choosing the waypoint on PVI and setting route mode. Sometimes it just seems to turn in a lazy circle. Other times it seems to be following a diamond pip on the HUD compass tape that doesn't seem to align to any of the waypoints at all.

Also, not sure how the ARBIS (?) fits in with the PVI -as the "to" waypoint on there doesn't seem to coincide with the PVI set one - but it does update when passing the waypoint (which I've had to fly to manually to trigger). The way the map moves in that thing is fucking frustrating too!

[WarbossPetross]

49 минут назад, RangerGav сказал:

Also, not sure how the ARBIS (?) fits in with the PVI -as the "to" waypoint on there doesn't seem to coincide with the PVI set one - but it does update when passing the waypoint (which I've had to fly to manually to trigger). The way the map moves in that thing is fucking frustrating too!

AFAIK the ABRIS listens to the PVI but it doesn't talk to it. The autopilot listens only to the PVI, so normally you only have to select waypoints on the PVI. You may select waypoints on the ABRIS to view their properties in the database or when the PVI is busted but that's about it, you just don't need that for anything else since the ABRIS is pretty much a stand-alone system (actually a Finnish commercial computer - it's a prototype aircraft after all).

[J-man]

On 12/26/2022 at 9:08 PM, Schlomo1933 said:

Dump Question: did you set the PVI 800 to Waypoint 1 ? Or did u just activate the route mode.

And did you switch before u take off the MH-Gyro-Man Switch to MH and then back to Gyro?  

because have absolute no problem with waypoints and with or without route mode

 

Hi, I did set WP1 on the PVI and then choose route mode. I left the switch in the gyro position and did not cycle it, since that is what the training mission tells you to do.
I flew the training mission a few times, and sometimes the helo flys to the location selected on the PVI but then quickly looses precision and starts to drift strongly by WP 3/4,
and other times it misses WP 1 by a wide margin but still switches to WP 2 after a while, as if the position the PVI thinks it is at is already significantly different from what the ABRIS shows it to be. Then again, the ABRIS also likes to turn the opposite direction of the helicopter in turns and than spins wildly to get back to the right orientation.
I have no such issues when flying the BS2 version of the mission, so I still assume this is related to the other issues reportet with the autopilot/INS system in this forum.

Edit:  Not really sure why this thread is marked as "Correct as is", I doubt the helo is supposed to have INS drift in under 5km of movement in a straight line.
It is not as if I am the only one reporting INS precision errors.

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by J-man

[Schlomo1933]

After INU (stored/ normal) alligment (also after hot start) you need to correct the heading as written in the manual . 
if towers or metallic objects near the helicopter choose the manual correction instead of the automatic magnetic correction. 

I believe the training videos are from BS2 and are just a bit extended for BS3, but still wrong . 
Anyway , the INU system is broken and still starts drifting after 30 km way to much. 

best thing is you make a hot start at the moment. And choose a fixpoint directly at the 2nd waypoint. 

Could pls any Moderator could delete the „correct-as-is“ label? Because it’s Not-Correct.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Schlomo1933

[Schlomo1933]

Here is a really good tutorial about INU alligment, navigation to Waypoints , how to use fix points and target points from DEEPHACK

 

[Yeti42]

It's not correct as is, it's all over the place, you basically cannot fly in route mode past waypoint 3.  EVEN when no giro drift and need for alignment is set in the mission editor.

[Hobel]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Yeti42:

It's not correct as is, it's all over the place, you basically cannot fly in route mode past waypoint 3.  EVEN when no giro drift and need for alignment is set in the mission editor.

Checking.

[Yeti42]

15 hours ago, Hobel said:

Checking.

OK, I've narrowed this issue down.  It only occurs when there are 2 non sequenced waypoints close together, the PVI 800 gets confused and switched to the wrong waypoint.  Trackfile attached

KA-50_III_CAU_IA_route_close_wp2.miz.trk dcs.log

[Hobel]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Yeti42:

OK, I've narrowed this issue down.  It only occurs when there are 2 non sequenced waypoints close together, the PVI 800 gets confused and switched to the wrong waypoint.  Trackfile attached

KA-50_III_CAU_IA_route_close_wp2.miz.trk 1018.29 kB · 0 Downloads dcs.log 265.46 kB · 0 Downloads

thank you for the update

 

i will look at it again but can it be related to this?

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Hobel

[Yeti42]

19 minutes ago, Hobel said:

thank you for the update

 

i will look at it again but can it be related to this?

 

 

It could be related but I suspect it has something to do with the WP switch logic used in the code, you may also notice that you cannot manually switch back to the correct waypoint after the incorrectly sequenced one has been loaded in the PVI-800, all other waypoints can be selected.

[Hobel]

Am 26.6.2023 um 13:14 schrieb Yeti42:

It could be related but I suspect it has something to do with the WP switch logic used in the code, you may also notice that you cannot manually switch back to the correct waypoint after the incorrectly sequenced one has been loaded in the PVI-800, all other waypoints can be selected.

Okay, I tested a few rounds yesterday, but could not reproduce it yet. Would you be so good and provide another track?

[Yeti42]

On 6/28/2023 at 7:46 PM, Hobel said:

Okay, I tested a few rounds yesterday, but could not reproduce it yet. Would you be so good and provide another track?

Here you go, another track file, you'll notice it suddenly jumps to WP5, EDIT: also please note you need to be in DT (Desired Track mode) to reliably reproduce the problem.  I've also reviewed the x and y coordinate information in the track/mission file and these appear to be correct.  Something weird is going on based on how near a WP is to the currently tracked WP and the next waypoint in the sequence, If I move the waypoints further away from each other, the problem does not occur.

KA-50_III_CAU_IA_route_close_wp3-5.miz.trk

Edited June 30, 2023 by Yeti42
Additional information

[Hobel]

Am 29.6.2023 um 13:14 schrieb Yeti42:

Here you go, another track file, you'll notice it suddenly jumps to WP5, EDIT: also please note you need to be in DT (Desired Track mode) to reliably reproduce the problem.  I've also reviewed the x and y coordinate information in the track/mission file and these appear to be correct.  Something weird is going on based on how near a WP is to the currently tracked WP and the next waypoint in the sequence, If I move the waypoints further away from each other, the problem does not occur.

KA-50_III_CAU_IA_route_close_wp3-5.miz.trk 455 kB · 1 Download

 

Thanks, can you send me the missions file?

[Eraseri]

I had the same problem with the training mission. Enroute follow didn't work. However, outside navigation training mission the enroute following works.