Eagle dynamics needs to add more EWR's and AWACS to DCS

[assportal]

Recently I was trying to make a realistic SA-2/S-75 battery to 1960s specifications and realised that there's not many options when it comes to EWRs in DCS the most you'll get for Russia is the 1L13 Nebo “Box Spring” (1980s) and the 55G6 "Tall Rack" (1990s) and for the US AN/FPS-117 (1980s). which is a shame, adding more period diverse would allow for more balanced and realistic air-defense setups for DCS missions. with the future modules coming to DCS including the F-4, F8J, A-6, A-7, F-100D, and the promised update of the MIG-21 it seems obvious that there will be a large shift of players from modern jets to cold war 1960/70s airframes it would make sense for eagle dynamics to add more period-specific assets. it would be nice to see some more EWRs added as well as earlier versions of AWACS like the EC-121, every server I play on relies on an AWACS for target acquisition, don't get me, wrong overlord is great but it's hard to trick, adding EWR networks would influence players to strategise methods of hiding from or finding paths around EWRs, even if they don't add any new early warning radars an update of the old one would be nice as it seems like they were added then forgotten about. 

a possible list of eastern EWRs                                          

• P-8 “Knife Rest”       The P-12 and the P-8 are the ones i really want to be added                                                  
• P-12 “Spoon Rest”
• P-14 “Tall King”
• P-18 “Spoon Rest D
• P-19 “Flat Face B” 
• P-37 “Bar Lock” 
• P-40 “Long Track”
• PRV-9 “Think Skin”
• PRV-10 “Rock Cake”
• PRV-11 “Side Net” 
• PRV-13 “Odd Pair”
• PRV-16 "Thin Skin B"
• PRV-17 "Odd Group"

 

Possible western EWRs

• AN/TPS-32
• AN/TPS-43
• AN/TPS-44
• AN/TPS-59
• AN/TPS-70
• AN/TPS-75
• AN/TPS-77
• Giraffe S
• Giraffe AMB
• RRP-117
• S 600
• S 613
• S 723 "Martello"
• Watchman

[Northstar98]

+1 it would be good to get some more long-range radars, be they early warning/GCI radars and missing SAM acquisition radars. DCS has a surprisingly small amount of them for a game focusing on aviation.

Right now my first priority would be on missing acquisition radars for our current SAM systems:

• The 5N84A/AE + PRV-13/17 for the S-200V/VE
• The P-12/P-18 (and possibly the PRV-12 being made into a functional unit) for the S-75M
• The P-40, which is used as a long-range early warning radar for the ZSU-23-4, SA-6, SA-8, SA-9, SA-13 and SA-19 in more of an IADS like set-up (accompanied by a PU-12M (9S482) battery command vehicle), in addition to be the acquisition radar used for the SA-4 (which we don't have). 

After that? There's plenty to choose from:

• The P-37 [Bar Lock B] and P-80 [Back Net] are fairly ubiqitous EWRs throughout the Warsaw Pact, as well as a few others (such as Syria).
• The AN/TPS-43F, AN/TPS-44 and S 600 series would be appropriate for the South Atlantic map.
• The AN/FPS-110, AN/FPS-6A and the Giraffe 40 would be appropriate on the Kola map in a Cold War setting.

As for AEW&C aircraft, the main ones I'm interested in right now is an E-2C (preferably either Basic or Group 0 configurations, but don't really mind which) and the Tu-126 [Moss], though I do see the appeal for an EC-121.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Northstar98
formatting

[assportal]

yes i agree. it just feels asthough this is a big aspect thats been overlooked.

Edited December 30, 2022 by assportal

[Raviar]

does it have any considerable impact on detection and range ?

[Exorcet]

3 hours ago, Raviar said:

does it have any considerable impact on detection and range ?

Like anything, AWACS have evolved over time. Having period correct or nation correct AWACS could mean having different levels of radar performance. EC-121's for example had less range than E-3's and also were worse at dealing with targets over land. We also need weaknesses like that modeled along with modeling the actual command and control elements of AWACS.

[Northstar98]

4 hours ago, Raviar said:

does it have any considerable impact on detection and range ?

Yes.

The Tu-126's Liana/Shmell radar was pulse-only and possibly didn't have MTI, which would make it fairly useless in look-down situations with significant clutter.

Same goes for the EC-121 (which has a separate, shorter-ranged height-finding radar).

It's difficult to find concrete specifications of the radars used in AWACS, though I think the AN/APY-1 is shorter ranged than the AN/APY-2 (which, at least according to the C:MO database, also has NCTR-JEM capability)

[okopanja]

P-18 is very relevant radar which was used to detect and track F-117 shot down in 1999. Present s-125 has p-19 but does not react to presence of f-117 it at all.

[Raviar]

1 hour ago, Northstar98 said:

Yes.

The Tu-126's Liana/Shmell radar was pulse-only and possibly didn't have MTI, which would make it fairly useless in look-down situations with significant clutter.

Same goes for the EC-121 (which has a separate, shorter-ranged height-finding radar).

It's difficult to find concrete specifications of the radars used in AWACS, though I think the AN/APY-1 is shorter ranged than the AN/APY-2 (which, at least according to the C:MO database, also has NCTR-JEM capability)

But I meant among EWRs and AWACS, and how effective are these EWRs compare to what we have in DCS currently? (btw i believe the Search radars of the SAM batteries and EWRs are not really scanning the sky, But the AI know the location of AC, maybe i am wrong)

Edited January 2, 2023 by Raviar

[upyr1]

On 12/30/2022 at 6:27 AM, assportal said:

Recently I was trying to make a realistic SA-2/S-75 battery to 1960s specifications and realised that there's not many options when it comes to EWRs in DCS the most you'll get for Russia is the 1L13 Nebo “Box Spring” (1980s) and the 55G6 "Tall Rack" (1990s) and for the US AN/FPS-117 (1980s). which is a shame, adding more period diverse would allow for more balanced and realistic air-defense setups for DCS missions. with the future modules coming to DCS including the F-4, F8J, A-6, A-7, F-100D, and the promised update of the MIG-21 it seems obvious that there will be a large shift of players from modern jets to cold war 1960/70s airframes it would make sense for eagle dynamics to add more period-specific assets. it would be nice to see some more EWRs added as well as earlier versions of AWACS like the EC-121, every server I play on relies on an AWACS for target acquisition, don't get me, wrong overlord is great but it's hard to trick, adding EWR networks would influence players to strategise methods of hiding from or finding paths around EWRs, even if they don't add any new early warning radars an update of the old one would be nice as it seems like they were added then forgotten about. 

a possible list of eastern EWRs                                          

• P-8 “Knife Rest”       The P-12 and the P-8 are the ones i really want to be added                                                  
• P-12 “Spoon Rest”
• P-14 “Tall King”
• P-18 “Spoon Rest D
• P-19 “Flat Face B” 
• P-37 “Bar Lock” 
• P-40 “Long Track”
• PRV-9 “Think Skin”
• PRV-10 “Rock Cake”
• PRV-11 “Side Net” 
• PRV-13 “Odd Pair”
• PRV-16 "Thin Skin B"
• PRV-17 "Odd Group"

 

Possible western EWRs

• AN/TPS-32
• AN/TPS-43
• AN/TPS-44
• AN/TPS-59
• AN/TPS-70
• AN/TPS-75
• AN/TPS-77
• Giraffe S
• Giraffe AMB
• RRP-117
• S 600
• S 613
• S 723 "Martello"
• Watchman

Agreed, there are few things more frustrating with DCS than building a mission with the historical mode and seeing an asset class just disapiar so you can't make a period correct mission set in 1975. 

[Northstar98]

6 hours ago, Raviar said:

But I meant among EWRs and AWACS

Yes, compared to AWACS (i.e the E-3 and E-767), the EC-121 and Tu-126 should be more limited, as I described.

6 hours ago, Raviar said:

and how effective are these EWRs compare to what we have in DCS currently?

Some are shorter ranged, some are longer but apart from that DCS doesn't really model the limitations of these radars.

6 hours ago, Raviar said:

(btw i believe the Search radars of the SAM batteries and EWRs are not really scanning the sky, But the AI know the location of AC, maybe i am wrong)

They do have a radar model, but for the AI it's super simplistic.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Northstar98

[Exorcet]

7 hours ago, Raviar said:

But I meant among EWRs and AWACS, and how effective are these EWRs compare to what we have in DCS currently? (btw i believe the Search radars of the SAM batteries and EWRs are not really scanning the sky, But the AI know the location of AC, maybe i am wrong)

 

AI does have radar. It's why many mission makers really want detection triggers in addition to X in zone triggers. X in zone is all seeing, while AI radars are limited by RCS, beaming, terrain, etc.