New here with a few questions...

[EmJay22]

Greetings... coming to DCS world from the ancient IL2 FB world. 

This looks like an amazing SIM which I am not sure how I never checked it out before. Maybe due to the lack of planes.. who knows.. But that isn't going to deter me now.

I managed to find my way here while browsing for info regarding replacing my aging flight stick...a very old Saitek Cyborg 3D Force. Clearly force feedback is something no one cares much about.  I use it along with an X45 throttle and CH Pro pedals. Not fancy but worked okay. 

Oddly, the Cyborg seems to work just fine with DCS (which I installed this past weekend) so maybe the problems it has with IL2 are related to IL2 FB. 

However, it is still time to upgrade as drivers are a problem as Windows continues forward. 

I thought I saw a separate section in the forums for such hardware but maybe I was dreaming or maybe it was a different forum. 

I was hoping the X56 with dual throttles would work fine with DCS. Not really willing to shell out tons for more pricey hardware, especially as more planes and maps are not free.

The other question pertains to downloading the game. If I install and run on my desktop PC, would I need to "pay again" for paid content if I want to install on my laptop?

Any comments would be helpful.

[EmJay22]

Ok.. i found the Saitek forum...

[rob10]

5 hours ago, EmJay22 said:

The other question pertains to downloading the game. If I install and run on my desktop PC, would I need to "pay again" for paid content if I want to install on my laptop?

No.  You can only run it on one or the other at a time but you don't need to rebuy.  I run it on my laptop to mission edit and on my desktop to actually run any missions.

[Elephant42]

I am also new to DCS and I currently run the X56 combo.  My stick has always had a problem with the mini-joystick but other than that they both work well with DCS.

 

[EmJay22]

11 hours ago, rob10 said:

No.  You can only run it on one or the other at a time but you don't need to rebuy.  I run it on my laptop to mission edit and on my desktop to actually run any missions.

Thanks for confirming this and it makes sense. And also thanks for the reply!

5 hours ago, Elephant42 said:

I am also new to DCS and I currently run the X56 combo.  My stick has always had a problem with the mini-joystick but other than that they both work well with DCS.

 

Thank you also for the reply. 

The more research I do, the more confused I am. I've seen several YouTube reviews of the X56... as well as the Warthog HOTAS.. Have seen several comments about the 56 regarding power consumption but am still leaning towards it.

Thank you very much.

[Sacarino111]

21 hours ago, EmJay22 said:

I was hoping the X56 with dual throttles would work fine with DCS. Not really willing to shell out tons for more pricey hardware,

Hi.

I have an X52 Pro (really old one) plus Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIr. Perfect for the task. For extra buttons and functionallitys, I made a (few) extra button box(es), but this is my personal way of playing. Yours may be different, so I think your choice is more than enough.

Saludos.

Saca111

[EmJay22]

1 hour ago, Sacarino111 said:

Hi.

I have an X52 Pro (really old one) plus Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIr. Perfect for the task. For extra buttons and functionallitys, I made a (few) extra button box(es), but this is my personal way of playing. Yours may be different, so I think your choice is more than enough.

Saludos.

Saca111

Thanks for the comment.

As I continue to "learn" the F/A-18C while I decide what to order, using my old Cyborg 3D Force stick, X45 throttle and CH Pro pedals.. I am not so sure I really NEED dual throttles. I did order the X56 but might just return it once it shows up. 

Edited January 4, 2023 by EmJay22
correct typo

[rob10]

You really won't use split throttles in the F-18 except for startup.  However, IMHO, a good throttle (and joystick for that matter) makes Air to Air Refuel much easier (yes it can be done with a crappy throttle/joystick or keyboard, but it's a lot more difficult).

[EmJay22]

53 minutes ago, rob10 said:

You really won't use split throttles in the F-18 except for startup.  However, IMHO, a good throttle (and joystick for that matter) makes Air to Air Refuel much easier (yes it can be done with a crappy throttle/joystick or keyboard, but it's a lot more difficult).

One of the complaints I recall about the X56 is that the springs in the stick make small adjustments, such as needed for mid-air refueling almost impossible. 

I was thinking of trying an old mod I did on my son's Cyborg Evo which was to carefully add a zip tie to the spring.. just a bit.

Or do I need to spend a LOT more $$$ to get a "good" HOTAS? I know a lot of people don't consider Logitech "good".

And thanks again for the reply. It is very helpful

[rob10]

Very subjective subject area .  These are my opinions.  For sure bottom end hardware can be used to fly, but if you can afford to, nicer hardware increases enjoyment.  I started many years ago when it was just the A-10 with a CH Pro throttle/pedals and CH Fighterstick joystick.  It worked and I enjoyed it, but I didn't really do any AAR (with the A-10 you really don't ever need to unless you really want to).  You never have enough buttons and that definitely limited things with those.  I eventually moved on to Thrustmaster A-10 HOTAS and that was a revelation.  Many more buttons and just the over better quality was really nice (although it required some aftermarket mods for the TDC stick and joystick spring etc to really get it working well).  I moved from that to the Virpil WarBRD base (using the TM F-18 grip) and that was a whole new revelation of how much better things could get -- it was almost as big of step as going from the CH to the TM.  When the WinWing throttle 1st came out I went for it for the push through detents and the better switch layout for the F-18 since that's what I primarily fly now.

I learned to AAR the Hornet with the TM stick on desktop with the stock spring (almost at the expensive of one shoulder ) before I got the lighter spring for it.  There is no doubt for me that the TM made learning AAR easier vs CH (had tried with it before), although the finer control from the throttle probably made as much or more difference as the stick base.  The Virpil base just made it easier again.

End conclusion of all this is buy what you can afford, and if it makes sense, delay a little and buy higher.  That assumes you are pretty committed to long term flying.  If you think you'll lose interest and stop using it don't go high end (unless you'll use it for a different game).  You can enjoy flying DCS at whatever hardware level (especially if you haven't tried better), but in most cases the somewhat more expensive is worth the extra if you can afford it.  And if you're not playing in VR, prioritize a head tracking solution.  I didn't think I needed one for a lot of years and I've regretted not having it for those years ever since I got it.

[EmJay22]

25 minutes ago, rob10 said:

Very subjective subject area .  These are my opinions.  For sure bottom end hardware can be used to fly, but if you can afford to, nicer hardware increases enjoyment.  I started many years ago when it was just the A-10 with a CH Pro throttle/pedals and CH Fighterstick joystick.  It worked and I enjoyed it, but I didn't really do any AAR (with the A-10 you really don't ever need to unless you really want to).  You never have enough buttons and that definitely limited things with those.  I eventually moved on to Thrustmaster A-10 HOTAS and that was a revelation.  Many more buttons and just the over better quality was really nice (although it required some aftermarket mods for the TDC stick and joystick spring etc to really get it working well).  I moved from that to the Virpil WarBRD base (using the TM F-18 grip) and that was a whole new revelation of how much better things could get -- it was almost as big of step as going from the CH to the TM.  When the WinWing throttle 1st came out I went for it for the push through detents and the better switch layout for the F-18 since that's what I primarily fly now.

I learned to AAR the Hornet with the TM stick on desktop with the stock spring (almost at the expensive of one shoulder ) before I got the lighter spring for it.  There is no doubt for me that the TM made learning AAR easier vs CH (had tried with it before), although the finer control from the throttle probably made as much or more difference as the stick base.  The Virpil base just made it easier again.

End conclusion of all this is buy what you can afford, and if it makes sense, delay a little and buy higher.  That assumes you are pretty committed to long term flying.  If you think you'll lose interest and stop using it don't go high end (unless you'll use it for a different game).  You can enjoy flying DCS at whatever hardware level (especially if you haven't tried better), but in most cases the somewhat more expensive is worth the extra if you can afford it.  And if you're not playing in VR, prioritize a head tracking solution.  I didn't think I needed one for a lot of years and I've regretted not having it for those years ever since I got it.

Thank for taking the time to share all this and I really appreciate it.  Yeah.. too many hours with Ghost Recon made me realize arm rests are critical to shoulder health.

So many options. I have been playing IL2 for close to 20 years so don't mind spending more money. 

Today I started playing around with opentrack and Al track since I already have a decent webcam and I think it might work once I get it set up right. So far the cost is free. 

[MadKreator]

4 hours ago, EmJay22 said:

Thank for taking the time to share all this and I really appreciate it.  Yeah.. too many hours with Ghost Recon made me realize arm rests are critical to shoulder health.

So many options. I have been playing IL2 for close to 20 years so don't mind spending more money. 

Today I started playing around with opentrack and Al track since I already have a decent webcam and I think it might work once I get it set up right. So far the cost is free. 

Don’t forget to check out WinWing hardware too. Very good bang for the buck, although starting at double the price of the x56… vkb and virpil if you want to really dive in lol I love my vkb and winwing stuff.. ai track is a good intro to head tracking although it is laggy in comparison to others.  I will say that if your webcam will do 60hz + it will be much better but honestly pales in comparison to how smooth trackIR is( since its camera is 120hz) . I’ve tried about all of them from the free-est of free, to modified ps3 eye’s with various head units, hat clips, powered units up to well, track IR, and it was well worth the money ( even though I bought it used on eBay, and use a third party wireless “ the puck” head unit, also from eBay). Upgrade your controls first, then dive into better head tracking ( or all at once if you prefer). Just my opinion of course on the whole matter. People are happy with what their happy with and nothing is wrong with that!

- I should add that trackIR is smoothest when the game is running a solid 60fps, or 120fps.. In between or below it does get slightly jumpy/ stuttery with fast movements.. a little bit but not much.. I can run dcs in the 100fps range pretty easily but I cap mine at 60 just so  track IR and Helios run the smoothest they can. The ps3-eye versions of head tracking would be smoothest at 45fps and 90fps in game( 90 hz camera), I would assume.

Edited January 4, 2023 by MadKreator

[Dangerzone]

On 1/4/2023 at 1:25 AM, EmJay22 said:

I was hoping the X56 with dual throttles would work fine with DCS. Not really willing to shell out tons for more pricey hardware, especially as more planes and maps are not free.

Please... PLEASE reconsider and go with something else and NOT the X56, or at least look very carefully into reviews and know exactly what you're going to be getting first and be prepared to have to 'work around' numerous problems. I went with the X56 - absolute waste of money. Ghost signals pressing buttons when I never did, inconsistent throttle friction, slop on the stick, one of the 2 way switches on the back of the throttle doesn't return immediately after releasing, etc - it's really a poor choice. 

At the very least, consider the TM Warthog instead of the X56. Otherwise even though it is a little more expensive, I strongly suggest that you consider Virpil, VKB, or Winwing. 

I fought with the X56 for maybe 9 months, and then considered it a lost cause and purchased a VKB MCG and a Virpil. Really hurt to buy yet again - but the difference between them is huge.  Please buy once - buy right. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Dangerzone

[EmJay22]

I think I am definitely convinced... on both counts.. Track IR and flight controls. 

The opentrack thing doesn't work well at all as the Al track preview window is now splitting me into two images?

So it's a matter of determining what would be needed from those higher end controls for someone primarily using the Hornet.

visited the Winwing website and left very confused as to what I would actually need to purchase.

[ex81]

8 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

I fought with the X56 for maybe 9 months, and then considered it a lost cause and purchased a VKB MCG and a Virpil. Really hurt to buy yet again - but the difference between them is huge.  Please buy once - buy right. 

 

Sorry for you, but I use the even older X55 for years now and never had any problem with it. So it depends on everybodys personal experience and expectation how the X56 or 55 is judged. If you can spend hundrets of $, go for whatever you want. But in your reply make it clear it`s YOUR verdict.

[rob10]

For primarily F-18 and looking at WinWing I would start with this: Orion2 HOTAS F/A-18 Super Hornet (throttle and stick).  I can highly recommend the Top Gun MIP if you're looking to spend more but you don't need it to start.

Track IR Pro is expensive, but if you don't want to spend a bunch of time tweaking and trying to get things to work is a good option for "just works out of the box".  The Delan Clip is a cheaper option that has good reviews.

[EmJay22]

49 minutes ago, rob10 said:

For primarily F-18 and looking at WinWing I would start with this: Orion2 HOTAS F/A-18 Super Hornet (throttle and stick).  I can highly recommend the Top Gun MIP if you're looking to spend more but you don't need it to start.

Track IR Pro is expensive, but if you don't want to spend a bunch of time tweaking and trying to get things to work is a good option for "just works out of the box".  The Delan Clip is a cheaper option that has good reviews.

Cool.  It appears to be one sale currently and is not a whole lot more than the X56 https://wwsimstore.com/view/goods-details.html?id=369

unless I am looking at that site wrong.

[rob10]

13 minutes ago, EmJay22 said:

Cool.  It appears to be one sale currently and is not a whole lot more than the X56 https://wwsimstore.com/view/goods-details.html?id=369

unless I am looking at that site wrong.

That's the package

[EmJay22]

1 hour ago, rob10 said:

That's the package

Well I think I will wait a bit before ordering that.

It's a bit annoying that it will take almost a month for the Track IR Pro. I don't normally use a headset as I don't want to talk to anyone.. LOL

[MadKreator]

1 hour ago, EmJay22 said:

Cool.  It appears to be one sale currently and is not a whole lot more than the X56 https://wwsimstore.com/view/goods-details.html?id=369

unless I am looking at that site wrong.

Personally I’d go with the WW hotas Max package with the f-18 throttle. Just because those couple extra hats/ buttons on the stick will definitely come in handy.. especially if you get into flying the a-10lol I use a vkb gunfighter ultimate and I’m very very happy that it has the few extra controls like the hotas max.. I have the Orion 1 f-18 throttle and I do really like it, never felt the need to change it out for something different.

I will say that the WW simapp pro software is junk IMO. Use it to update and calibrate things and set switches /levers how you like and the lighting level of the throttle, then never turn it on again unless you havre to lol Also go into the dcs export.lua after you install it and delete the two lines of code it writes in there. It messed with mine, and many others, game performance. You wont get stick vibrations or the a/a, a/g light turning on and off but the wonky performance hit isn’t worth it… for me and in my experience anyway.

Edited January 5, 2023 by MadKreator

[CobraKhan]

4 hours ago, EmJay22 said:

I think I am definitely convinced... on both counts.. Track IR and flight controls. 

The opentrack thing doesn't work well at all as the Al track preview window is now splitting me into two images?

So it's a matter of determining what would be needed from those higher end controls for someone primarily using the Hornet.

visited the Winwing website and left very confused as to what I would actually need to purchase.

WinWing manufactures basically an entire cockpit for sim pilots should you so choose to spend the thousands to purchase all of those controls! I find their stuff to be relatively high quality for the price, although it is electronics, and any one of those buttons and/or switches could (eventually will) fail!  The harder we are on the buttons and knobs, one would expect that the useful life of it would be reduced. WinWing is just one brand, you should shop around; think about price, quality and also duration to acquire as these controls may not be readily available. In the mean time, use what you have, don't get impatient! Figure out what it is that right for you and your pocketbook and do it right the first time!

I jumped into DCS and purchased the WinWing Super Taurus Throttle with all of the toggles, nobs and switches.  If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't buy that particular model.  Not that I am at all disappointed in the throttle, but I just don't use all of those switches and toggles (the ones of the base / box)!  After flying the game for a couple years, what I have been accustom of doing is taking my right hand off of the flight stick, grabbing the computer mouse and using the computer cursor to hover over the toggles and switches in the cockpit and mouse clicking to perform most all of the functions. I use every single button and switch on the throttle handle, just not those that are on the base. If had I to do it over again, I would go with the Orion model for less money.

Another way to go, or in supplement to your throttle and stick controls, is the $10 'Voice Attack' software. You audibly say into your microphone "Gear Down" and it will lower your landing gear for you without you having to flick any switches. "Probe Out" and low and behold your refueling probe comes out. You can program it to perform virtually every function in the game or just a few. I personally like it for the radio communications with the A.I.  You audibly say "F2" and Voice Attack pushes the F2 Function key for you.  I audibly say "Radio 2" and it brings up a dialog box of function commands for the channel/frequency I have tuned into that second radio.  In aerial refueling, you will have to communicate with the tanker this way.  You pull up the radio dialog box and use your keyboard's function keys to communicate with the A.I. inside that tanker.  You eventually use the F1 button to get the tanker to extend out the fueling hose, yet if you are not flying the Hornet in just the right location the computer acts like it doesn't know that you are there ... it tells you "Return to Pre-Contact" and even worse, it goes another step and turns off your dialog!  Anyway, probably above your level right now, but eventually you will understand what I am talking about here when you get to practicing refueling. Being able to keep both hands on the flight controls and your eyes on the tanker while audibly communicate with the computer rather than pushing function keys goes a long way when you are trying to get fuel!        

[TopCat SE]

On 1/4/2023 at 4:21 AM, Sacarino111 said:

Hi.

I have an X52 Pro (really old one) plus Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIr. Perfect for the task. For extra buttons and functionallitys, I made a (few) extra button box(es), but this is my personal way of playing. Yours may be different, so I think your choice is more than enough.

Saludos.

Saca111

I'm so glad to read this.  I just downloaded the game and was wondering whether my old X52 would be at least functional.  Yay!

[EmJay22]

My ancient X45 is actually pretty good and since I was using the Cyborg 3D stick for IL2 and not using the stick, it is in almost brand new condition. Gonna add a bit of lithium grease where that cone thing below the spring rubs.. or maybe some graphite to make it a bit smoother. and also maybe try to add a zip tie to the spring just to slightly compress it to weaken it a hair.

[Sacarino111]

1 hour ago, EmJay22 said:

My ancient X45 is actually pretty good and since I was using the Cyborg 3D stick for IL2 and not using the stick, it is in almost brand new condition. Gonna add a bit of lithium grease where that cone thing below the spring rubs.. or maybe some graphite to make it a bit smoother. and also maybe try to add a zip tie to the spring just to slightly compress it to weaken it a hair.

Hi.

Ahhh, the good old X45... If it works ok, it will be good enough. The biggest problem will be the trigger (one step trigger). For the rest. no (real) need for any extra hardware (don't let your wife read this!) Grease it, play with the spring and fly safelly!

Saludos.

Saca111

P.S. If you need some educated guess on the need of a more expensive HOTAS ( wife wise), I'll be more than happy to help! 

[EmJay22]

Hi.
Ahhh, the good old X45... If it works ok, it will be good enough. The biggest problem will be the trigger (one step trigger). For the rest. no (real) need for any extra hardware (don't let your wife read this!) Grease it, play with the spring and fly safelly!
Saludos.
Saca111
P.S. If you need some educated guess on the need of a more expensive HOTAS ( wife wise), I'll be more than happy to help! 

Oh. My plan is to just use the X45 while I decide just what to order and wait for it to arrive and work my way thru the F-18 tutorials.

I definitely want something new with nice shiny paint, clicky buttons, pretty lights as well as a solid feel

Any and all recommendations are appreciated.

The problem isn’t really my better half. It’s my 4 legged ground crew who would rather do something else besides sit and wait.


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